Natural Game Open Thread

[Daniel Becerra]

We encourage that every social interaction you get involved into flows naturally. For that matter, ask anything about Natural Game.

Some topics related to Natural Game

- Opening
- Keeping a conversation flowing
- Shaping
- Creating a bond
- Sexual Tension
- Physical Escalation
- Emotional Escalatoion
- Being on state
- Humor
- Level of energy

There is tons of stuff you can ask. Shoot with questions.

[JJ_Bones]

What are some good tips for keeping the conversation flowing? I'm usually pretty good at it, but I definitely slip up at times and get stuck in the silence. I know really listening to what she is talking about is something you must do, because they give subtle hints as to what they want to talk about.

[Hector M.]

On Awkward Silence:

Usually that's the time to move somewhere else (With her). As you move, you see new things happening, which provides more topics for convo. The more you move, the more things to talk about, no doubt about that. How to start that new topic is up to you.

[uziel]

Originally Posted by JJ_Bones

What are some good tips for keeping the conversation flowing? I'm usually pretty good at it, but I definitely slip up at times and get stuck in the silence. I know really listening to what she is talking about is something you must do, because they give subtle hints as to what they want to talk about.

You can just start asking the most rediculous questions once you've talked for a few minutes and set the tone right for the conversation.

The key to natural game, in my oppinion, is that you have to show your supercool personality in the first few seconds. She has to feel aroused, be amazed or be curious by the way you talk to her. If that's the case, you've got her attention.

[icemanmrfreeze]

Question/Comment...

Guys how important is it to be able to build kino throughout your conversation? Are you chances at hooking up doomed otherewise?

[Hector M.]

Originally Posted by icemanmrfreeze

Question/Comment...

Guys how important is it to be able to build kino throughout your conversation? Are you chances at hooking up doomed otherewise?

Kino is usually the "signal" that sexual tension exists. Why else would you go out of your way to touch that girl your attracted to (And vice versa).

[Daniel Becerra]

Originally Posted by JJ_Bones

What are some good tips for keeping the conversation flowing? I'm usually pretty good at it, but I definitely slip up at times and get stuck in the silence. I know really listening to what she is talking about is something you must do, because they give subtle hints as to what they want to talk about.

There are multiple things that you can do to keep a conversation going, but that's not the point. You don't want to just keep a conversation going, you want to make the BEST out of that conversation. Why? Here are the main reasons:

1. If your conversation with a woman isn't GREAT, then you may hit awkard silence along with loss of interest.
2. Even if you have her laughing doesn't mean the conversation was GREAT, she will still flake on you if she didn't put enough effort into it.

Let me first tell you what a great conversation is NOT about:

- It's not about making her laugh her ass off all day
- It's not about holding her attention with mimmicks
- It's not about qualifying her

It's about ESCALATING EMOTIONALLY AND PHYSICALLY. In other words, it's about getting to know one another.

Not all women are the same, nor are all the scenarios. You will run into women with different taste, with little time to talk, with a lot of time to talk, bored women, happy women, horny women, high class women, low class women, bi-sexual women etc. You have to adjust your skills for every scenario. Therefore, in certain situations you put the Physical Gear on High and the Emotional Gear on low (I.E. A club). In others, you do the opposite (I.E. A coffee shop)

I know of guys who can make women laugh all day, and they will hug them and kiss them and what not, but two days later, they lose all interest. I have seen other guys who can REALLY sweettalk but they can not touch, girls also lost interest. Some of these guys get GREAT first encounters, but very few to none get a second meeting.

(Fuck again, ran out of time, I'll finish this later)

[Ian Smith]

Originally Posted by icemanmrfreeze

Question/Comment...

Guys how important is it to be able to build kino throughout your conversation? Are you chances at hooking up doomed otherewise?

Absolutely not. Touch is an important aspect of getting comfortable with someone, but it's not necessary by any stretch of the imagination.

Important? Yes.
Imperative? No.

Sometimes the time is not always right to be touching someone, or sometimes that person doesn't want to be touched. For example, if you're talking to a woman in your class, or at work, chances are it's not really appropriate to be touching them. So times like these call for more subtle forms of physical contact like a light touch. Whereas in places like nightclubs, bars, parties, concerts, and other venues of the sort you can engage in much more intimate physical contact almost right off the bat.

So use your best judgment in all circumstances and you should be able to get a feel of the appropriateness of touching others.

There are also many simple ways to initiate touch in conversation that anyone can do, shaking hands for one is an excellent way of developing some comfort between parties. Many more forms exist, like gently leading someone passed you in a crowded area, and other variations of subtle touch.

Use your imagination with this stuff, get creative and I'm sure you'll find ways to sneak it in there. And remember, don't over-think it, this should come natural to you with time.

[Daniel Becerra]

On Keeping a Conversation going Part II:

We established that a conversation is about Escalating emotionally and Physically at the same time. As you talk, you touch. Now be careful when you do this. Certain environments call for certain ways of touching.

Some tips to keep a conversation going are:

1. LISTEN
2. Ask her questions that you want to be asked about.
For example, I love when people talk to me about Self-Improvement, Social Dynamics and Politics, those are really my favorite topics. When I talk about them, I can't stop.
As the conversation starts, she'll most likely mention something and as you LISTEN, you grab something from there and you ask about it in a way that will get her talking

HER: I just got out of work
ME: How was work?
HEr: Ahh horrible (Hint)
ME: You must really hate that place, what is it about it that you hate so much?
HER: The people, the long hours, some customers are just annoying, specially on weekends
ME: I feel you on that one. If these customers could only put themselves on our shoes for once.

Will finish later

[Tom Church]

Getting into state

Any suggestions?
I need to devise a routine to get myself into state. I'm gonna start trying meditation and NLP mind techniques so I basically envision myself in the desired state, and establish those feelings in my body...

[Hector M.]

Originally Posted by Calvin Davids

Getting into state

Any suggestions?...

When I was in wrestling, right before a match, I needed to be in a state of complete focus and calm, so that when I fight my opponent, I wont make erratic movements and screw up (One stumble, and everything changes).

I found that music, and a quiet spot, allow you to focus and be more alert. That's the most natural way to do it.

Some others that I've seen other people try (And work).

A)Ginko Biloba packs/supplements (Increases focus. I found it to be one of my main excercise necessities, and has worked for a bunch of my friends).

B)Deep breathing/Meditation (There's a reason Ian preaches the benefits of meditiation and yoga. I assure you, it calms you and sets up a clear, centered train of thought and action. Quiet places work the best).

That's all I can think of. Before exiting your house, go out relaxed and attentive. That's the closest thing you can come to "getting in state" without relying on the luck of the draw.

[Tom Church]

But for me, I don't find peace and calmfulness to be my 'state'.

When I am in state, I am almost in automatic mode. And it's driven by excitement. My voice quickens in pace, my answers are without hesitation, I'm laughing, smiling, and always doing something, I am so in state I don't have time to think.

I am unable to think of body language etc because I'm so absorbed into the situation around me. And I am always 1000% more successful when I'm in this state. I make everyone laugh, show natural value instinctively...It's really hard to describe.

Meditation leads me to take time in my answers, to think of everything philosophically, to blank the irrelevant questions etc with boredom as they have no significance. yet, in common day situations, this just doesn't work. Your attraction for being wise quickly turns into being boring........

I'm gonna work on this and post it up in the future. I will begin tomorrow.

[Daniel Becerra]

Originally Posted by icemanmrfreeze

Question/Comment...

Guys how important is it to be able to build kino throughout your conversation? Are you chances at hooking up doomed otherewise?

Kino is not just important, is necessary.
But it's important to learn when, where and how. I think Ian responded to it very well. There are certain places where the touch is going to be very light and others where it has to be fast and heavy.

It's really a matter of calibration. I'm in love with DiCarlo's Escalation Ladder. It's the most accurate step by step escalation for beginners, once you know your way around a woman, you can skip some and come back to them later. But it's PERFECT when you're just starting. I suggest you check it out.

Getting into state

Any suggestions?
I need to devise a routine to get myself into state. I'm gonna start trying meditation and NLP mind techniques so I basically envision myself in the desired state, and establish those feelings in my body...

First.

Exercise at least 30 minutes per day, get enough hours of sleep and eat breakfast EVERYDAY. It is really THAT important.

Second

Keep your surrondings clean. I can not believe how fool I had been for a long time. My room used to be messy and without noticing it, it would actually bring my 'state' down. I can't really come up with an explanation. But keeping your surroundings clean along with enough hours of sleep, exercise and breakfast really make a difference. They allow you to ALWAYS perform at your 100 % percent. I know exercising helps you be stress-free, sleeping recovers energy and breakfast is the fuel for your day.

Third

Add EXTRA stuff.

Meditation is good to THINK better. Since it puts thoughts clearer in your head. But it's not really convenient if you want to rock a party.

If you really want to get into the state of HIGH ENERGY, hang out with the 'partiers' or those who can bring your energy level up just by sticking around. You know them, you probably live a couple of blocks away from them.

Do your favorite activity, listen to your favorite music. If I wanna get high energy, I listen AND dance to Salsa. Other people have different types of music to get happy on.

I know there is other exercises out there that involve Hypnosis, Deep Thinking and such but I don't know much about it. I think Kris may know?

[Chikito]

Getting into state

Any suggestions?
I need to devise a routine to get myself into state. I'm gonna start trying meditation and NLP mind techniques so I basically envision myself in the desired state, and establish those feelings in my body...

Emotional states are as variable as english weather, so identifying your ideal state and being able to summon that on will is a difficult and useful skill. I know your into NLP Calvin, have you come across something called Anchoring?

It works like this;

Ever hear a song and it changes your state/mood instantly into a party mood? Or ever see a picture of a girl you used to have one-its for and your heart races? How about when you sit slouched and rest your chin on your arm you feel lazy? The picture, the song, your arm, these are all anchors. Our mind associates a certain external stimulus with certain feelings. The best bit is you can control what anchors you want. It could be anything, a certain song, touching your hand to your chest, pressing your index and thumb together... anything! Next time your feeling really strong feelings create your anchor, make it something that your not easily going to do. Simply your conditioning your mind just like Pavlov did with his dog.

For example if I ever listen to the song 'Crescendolls' by Daft Punk I always feel like im at a party and in a crowd of people dancing to the song all cheering 'Wheyyy!' in time with the song.

Or when I need deep concentration I have a special pen I have worked on to put me into that state. Every time I push the pens top down I get into the state of concentration and my memory works overtime.

It might not work at first unless you have picked a rare thing as your anchor (something your dont experience regularly, because it could be associated with 1000's of things) and the stronger those feels are the stronger the anchor becomes. At first it will weak but the more you do it the more you mind associates that feeling with that stimulus.

I like to listen to a certain song 'Porcelain' by Moby while I do up my tie just before I go out clubbing. It puts me in the super confident party state. I also use "Bitter Sweet Symphony' - The Verve.

Once you have created different anchors for yourself you can have total emotional control. Feel yourself getting really really angry? Simple press that anchor and BAM your instantly in a happy mood. You have to make sure your anchor is created on a strong clear memory. For example this one day I spent a beautiful day with my sister on a hill in a park listening to some music and smoking weed, I spent the whole day staring at the sky. If Im down now I always take a peek at the sky and remember that day and just like it did on that day, the chemicals in my brain that control that emotional state are released and Im feeling great again.

You can also use this to identify what your negative anchors are, what things piss you off etc? Find them and either learn to avoid them or disassociate that feeling with the anchor (done by using that anchor in as many different moods/states as you can)

[Anachronism]

1. How do you create a bond without boring questions like "Where are you from?", "What do you do?", etc?

2. How do you incorporate kino while you're discussing these things? One of my pet peeves is adding in awkward kino. To me, it seems like there are very few windows for "natural" kino when meeting someone for the first time. I also can't stand the "expected" kiss/kino when I pull up at her house, walk her to her door, etc. I'd rather do it naturally in escalation after a romantic moment, or am I completely wrong in my thinking?

[Giacomo]

To answer the question about kino, there are no 'kino windows'. It is all about how you perceive the actions you are taking.
Sure some people come off as 'too touchy' but if you feel the behaviour is fine, then it probably is.
How do you create a bond without those questions? For a start, make open ended statements, don't ask questions.
And if you want to avoid those topics just talk about other things. You should realise that if you are spending time with a girl, talking about random things, enjoying yourselves, you will bond. It is not about knowing everything about their past or their credentials, it is about enjoying yourselves in each others company. That will make you bond.

[Anachronism]

Thanks for explaining. The problem that I have is despite "bonding", I'm still getting a lot of flakes. After we have a great time, I get her number, and I get no response when I call after a few days. Maybe I'm not doing enough grounding, or my text/call isn't descriptive enough to remind them of the fun we had. I'm not sure.

[Kris Hansen]

Originally Posted by Anachronism

1. How do you create a bond without boring questions like "Where are you from?", "What do you do?", etc?

Open ended statements and questions are key when dealing with natural game. If you can ask an interesting open-ended question, or make a strong open-ended statement about yourself, she will start to talk to you in a very friend-normal way. You know how when you're talking to your friends, it's mostly statements with a couple of questions thrown in? It'll be like that.

An open-ended statement usually carries some emotional resonance to the topic discussed directly previous to it (research relate/reward and 4R cycles), as well as leaves open emotional channels for future topics. So if you're talking about sky-diving, you're not talking about how it was "Ok." You're talking about how it was "Totally fucking awesome! Scariest shit I've ever done!" Awesome isn't the emotional key, here; scary is. This gets her thinking about things that scare her. Try it. It's awesome how conversations just morph around these emotional links and you start with the things badgers eat and end with how Russia was the primary reason Hitler lost WWII.

Open-ended questions beg explaination, as opposed to one-word responses. "How?" and "Why" are my personal favorites. "What" is a piss-poor question you should strike from your vocabulary.

[Anachronism]

Thanks Kris, that was perfect.

How about flake reduction? And don't say "Head and Shoulders!"

More often than not, they're not even picking up their phone for the first call, even after things seem great when I got the digits.

[Tom Church]

NLP Calvin, have you come across something called Anchoring?

Yes, I know a lot about anchoring and have participated in it many times over the last few years.

There is one image that I believe has been truely anchored in my mind, as it was my first attempt and it still works in changing my emotions over 1 year on...

It's simply picturing me opening a set...

That's it. Every time I picture the same thing, the same group, the same clothes, the same response...it's making me feel good just thinking about it now.

Progress
I've been working this week on getting into state. I have been excercising (as you recommended) before I go out, staying with high energy people, and also, just letting my conscious thoughts become actions without thinking about the consequences...e.g. shouting loudly

Oh, and smiling helps!!

Cheers

[Daniel Becerra]

Originally Posted by Anachronism

Thanks Kris, that was perfect.

How about flake reduction? And don't say "Head and Shoulders!"

More often than not, they're not even picking up their phone for the first call, even after things seem great when I got the digits.

Ok, before answering your question. I'll give you a quick story about what soome people who start this game go through for the first couple of months.

Let's just start by pointing out that the mere fact of she flaking on you means that a day 2 was supposed to happen. That means this girl somehow, someway, in your mind, was to be pursued.

Ok, now keep that in mind. Ok??? It's very important!

So here is how many guys start and dare to contradict me, go ahead, dare to tell I'm lying.

So you learn the lines! WOOHH, the routines! WOOH. You got the girl 'hooked'! WOHH She's laughing and giggling all the time! WOOH She even made out with you! WOOOH. Day 2 comes around, she flaked! WOOH. Wait, what? She flaked. What the fuck happened? Why, if everything went alright? er Wrong

If you're kind enough to admit that you (and all of us) went and still go through process like this, then throw a HOOORAY Here is the thing. Everyoneee focuses on building 'Attraction'. Wow, the big deal! Attraction. I hear some dudes say 'Build attraction to the point she'll want to see you again, day after day' Lies. If you ever hear someone say, this they probably don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

So to prove that attraction is nothing but a 'feeling' that can come and go. I'll use you as an example. You see a cutie walking down the street. Something about her makes you attracted (Notice, I say 'makes' you. You don't decide or think about it. It just happens)... well, she's walking, walking... and boom she's gone. Ten minutes later, another cutie passes by and somehow, you also get this small feeling of attraction. What happened to the other girl? That's right, she's off your mind. THAT is attraction. A feeling that can be temporary or outlasting. Attraction comes and goes EASILY.

Rapport, DEEP Rapport does not.

Look. I don't care if you have her giggling all the time or making out with you. She will remember the connection, not the attraction. (That's why Romance is SO important, it's girl's language!) I'll be writing about Romance soon by the way.

The first step to rapport is keeping in mind that 'You have to open up to people'

Ooops, finish this later!

Gotta go! Peace!

[Sovnarkom]

Lol i Think Romeo made the Point as clear as it Can Get, every one in this game has the missconception that the game is just a ladder just learning the stuff and spitting them over, That´sVERBARF.

Its not only About Openning a set the right way, its not about lowering her esteem , not even about demostrating high Value........ Those are not the main points of the game, those are tools,.
Rapport is what is important its what hooks the girls to you, and u use those tools to help you get to the point were rapport is Built.


Going From Superficial to Deep

[...]First of all, is there a “process” for connection that can be broken down and defined?
Most definitely – people often go through a series of steps or a “process” when
connecting with each other. Now much of the process may be individual or dependent
on the context of the situation, but in most cases you can generalize the process into 4
basic stages: These are –
1) Intro – fluff (superficial talk)
2) Finding social connection, commonalities, and similarities
3) Shifting to the “Our world” perspective
4) Getting to exploration – interests, passions, hopes, dreams[...]

You Need to Evolve from Just Mere Attraction to a real connection, Picture this: you are walking through the park and u find a Really Cute Puppy, and u Play with and u fetch him some candy, you walk and he follows you and then you los him never get to see him again.

That´s what u r doing Mate, thats Just attraction.

Rapport is to build a real Connection to put a string through the puppy´s neck to put it whithout hurting the puppy and without gettin´ bitten.



Truely Yours SOv::...

[Daniel Becerra]

Let's talk about one vital strength of any ladies man: Reading Signals.

I smile at times when guys can't/won't see the signals. If you can't read the signals, then you can not move correctly.
The red, the yellow and the green. One means stop, the other is the transition, the other means go.

Rather than listing the different signals you may encounter, we TOGETHER will learn HOW TO RECOGNIZE and READ a signal. So if anyone (Kris, I'm looking at you) would like to elaborate a bit on this, go ahead.

[NickH]

Also, if anyone wants to know how to miss a signal badly, see my booty call thread.

I must be more aware.