Third Party Articles

[Ian Smith]

Attraction Switches

by Style

My concern lately has been the bigger picture in a PU. That, I think, is what should be focussed on once you can get rid of the training wheels of constantly scripted sarges and learning to be cool/charming/attractive.

For a while, I've been discussing with my colleagues the SWITCHES that must be flipped in a woman in order for her to feel attraction. We put together a really long list. From it, I boiled it down to just a few main switches. There is no order to them. They should just be consciously flipped at some point. So I've narrowed this down, and would love to hear thoughts and contributions:

1. You must show her that you're safe. Trust is an important issue for most women. This must be demonstrated. So switch #1: in order to proceed, you need SAFETY and TRUST.

2. You must show her that you have either ambition, motivation, or job/financial security. In other words, you must have a life and goals. So switch #2 is demonstrating to her that you have STABILITY and AMBITION. You don't have to be successful, you just have to show the potential to be successful (unless you're in your 30s, at which point you should have achieved something).

3. You must show her that you're different than the other guys, that you are not generic or boring, that she can learn something from you or grow with you, that you have a sense of adventure or creativity or spirituality. So switch #3 is showing her that you HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER, even if you don't give it to her in the moment. This is where DHVs are useful.

4. You must be the PRIZE of the room. She wants a guy others will envy her for, that she can brag about to her friends. This is where social proof comes in, where story-telling comes in. It's also where alpha qualities come in, cocky/funny, and not supplicating. So switch #4 is demonstrating all of the many qualities of CONFIDENCE, LEADERSHIP, AUTHORITY, and POPULARITY

5. It's a big world and we all feel alone in it, so if you can demonstrate that you UNDERSTAND her and where she comes from, she will feel chemistry. This can largely be done through demonstrating either cultural, mental, emotional, world view, humor, or life/background commonalities. The more obscure and rare a trait that you connect on, the more chemistry you create. So Switch #5 is demonstrating COMMONALITIES in order to trigger CHEMISTRY.

6. You need an aura of depth and mystery. You must maybe show a vulnerable or wounded side of yourself, you must not give away everything for free, you must be a puzzle she wants to figure out and maybe even have a wound she can heal. Switch #6 then is hooking her with your DEPTH and MYSTERY.

7. You must show her that you are NOT horny, but sexual. This is where social proof comes in too, also demonstrating an understanding of her world (liking her for who SHE is). So switch #7 is demonstrating your own LACK OF DESPERATION while showing her that you RECOGNIZE SOMETHING SPECIAL IN HER THAT ATTRACTS YOU TO HER. This is where QUALIFYING is useful, in other words demonstrating that you like her for who she is--even if you are a player.

So I think these are the main switches. I'm open to corrections and additions. Now, if you can FLIP these, she's really going to be into you. It's solid game. I'd love to see another list: of the switches to flip for a ONS -- the switches that over-ride the social programming and make her crave that adventure and abandon.

Style

[Ian Smith]

Eliciting Values

by Style

I've successfully used it at the end of attraction phase as I'm shifting into comfort and trust. It allows you to get to know them, captures and leads their imagination, and makes them laugh. Below is the routine quoted from one of Tyler D's posts. (I'

"STYLE'S EV ROUTINE:
-what is the experience you most enjoy doing? (she'll say dancing or being with family or something)
-what is the ideal scenario of you doing that thing. descrive it..
-so picturing that RIGHT NOW, how do you feel.. what emotions?
-"so really then, while I was asking you this, you smiled.. and yeah its kind of because I'm being a bit funny or weird or whatever.. but also, its because you could kind of feel that emotion right now, while we were talking about it.. can you feel it.. blah blah"
-so really then, even though your favourite experience is dancing, your core value is fun and excitement.. So what's most important to you is the experience of fun and excitement, and whatever leads you to that is most important.. blah blah
-OK, so in 4 minutes we've fulfilled your quest for core value. You can die now.

IOW,

-FAVOURITE ACTIVITY
-DESCRIPTION OF HER FAVOURITE ACTIVITY IN AN IDEAL SETTING
-WHAT EMOTION SHE GETS WHILE SHE PICTURES THIS
-SHOW HER THAT SHE EXPERIENCED THIS EMOTION WHILE PICTURING IT
-SHOW HER THAT WHAT SHE REALLY WANTS IS NOT SO MUCH THE ACTIVITY (ALTHOUGH ITS IMPORTANT), BUT THE EMOTIONAL FULFILLMENT SHE GETS FROM IT
-TELL HER SHE CAN DIE NOW"

Style

[Nick Krygier]

Social Vibing
by Tyler Durden

Truly a TD extravaganza. Must read for socially retarded.


Social Intelligence. Having struggled so hard to learn it, I have so much to say on this topic. In this post I'd like to specifically discuss social vibing and insecurity (a very focused, but important piece of the puzzle).

There are many sub communications that are being telegraphed at all times in any interaction. Both verbal and non-verbal.

Social interactions have features and customs that I suppose are designed to make them pleasant.

As social animals, we have the attribute of actually enjoying socializing just for the sake of socializing.

We socially VIBE.

People who break the vibe are considered socially unintelligent, and despite being perhaps very good/worthwhile people, they will come across poorly.

Most people, once you get to know them, are really worthwhile. I've rarely met someone, who when put in a position where I was by circumstance made to get to know them, that I didn't come to like.

So what's the difference between someone who is COOL and someone who is UNCOOL?

The way that they COME ACROSS. Their level of social intelligence. Their ability to CONVEY it. TELEGRAPH it. SUBCOMMUNICATE it.

Understanding how to socially vibe telegraphs that you are secure with yourself. Failing to understand telegraphs insecurity.

Much of this post assumes that early game is now past, and you are in comfort building (if you use my PU model, if you are using Juggler's, for example, then this would apply from the very start because he is full rapport).


=====

LAUGHING AS VIBING:

Laughter is not only a stress relief mechanism. It's actually a social mechanism.

Laughter basically shows that your social group is vibing well. Monkeys, while they can't talk like we can, still laugh when they are in rapport with each other.

Think to when you were telling a joke, and the group vibe was just so TIGHT. The people were starting to laugh before you'd even delivered the punch line. Maybe you said "I haven't even told the joke yet, and you guys are laughing". And they can't figure out why, and they laugh even more as you say this.

Also, think of how when you use cocky tactics, girls laugh/giggle. This is a sign that they are wanting to vibe with you.

The movie "Goodfellas", in the scene where Joe Pesci is telling jokes at the restaurant table, and everyone is laughing harder and harder. Ray Liotta can't stop laughing. It's not just the humor. It's the VIBE.

People who are not socially intelligent will LAUGH AT THEIR OWN JOKES. They laugh prior to the group starting to laugh.

Notice next time that someone laughs at their own joke first. Were you JUST ABOUT to laugh, but then didn't when they did first?

They were attempting to FILL IN THE RAPPORT GAP.

When the boss of an office tells a joke, everyone laughs. When the beta male tells it, he worries that nobody will, and laughs at his own joke to fill in the so-called rapport gap.

Concentrate on VIBING, and don't try to artificially push rapport.

Better, is to WAIT until the group laughs, and THEN laugh with them.

This gap is also seen when people say "right" after all of their sentences. They are trying to FILL IN the "right" that the other person SHOULD have said themself, IF THEY HAD been socially vibing properly.


=====


RHETORICAL SEQUENCING:

People, when talking, use weird (when you think about it) rhetorical sequencing. Here is an example:

A guy is excited that he got a cheap deal on a coat.


GOOD VIBING:

GUY: You'll never guess how much I got this coat for.
FRIEND: Wow.. Umm, 200$.
GUY: No man. 45$
FRIEND: Wow.. Nice man.


BAD VIBING:

GUY: You'll never guess how much I got this coat for.
FRIEND: Oh you got a deal. I guess 30$ then.
GUY: Umm, actually 45$
FRIEND: Oh.. well that's not bad.


Notice that the friend TELEGRAPHED SUB COMMUNICATIONS of INSECURITY.

His thought process was: "I'll show GUY that I'm smart. I'm clever enough to pickup on the fact that if he said "You'll never guess what I paid", that he got a deal. Then I'll have shown him that I passed his test."

His INSECURITY caused him to miss out on the social vibing, which was intended to build excitement and wasn't a test at all.

The secure guy, although realizing that the coat was really cheap, would still guess something lower end, but still high enough that if the guy's deal wasn't as great as he thought, he'll still feel good. After all, its bought, so why worry about that stuff (UNLESS you seriously could hookup a massively cheaper deal and return the coat (which the socially intelligent guy would ascertain before even suggesting it), in which case the happiness derived from that would outweigh actually telling the guy that he didn't get the best deal).


ANOTHER EXAMPLE:

GOOD VIBING:

HB: I just got this crazy shirt. Look at it.
PUA: Wow.. Cute!


BAD VIBING:

HB: I jsut got tihs crazy shirt. Look at it.
PUA: Cool.. Hey you know in L.A. that shirt would be nothing. I should bring you there sometime.


ANOTHER EXAMPLE:

GOOD VIBING:

(Friend1 drives to Toronto for the first time with Friend2)

FRIEND1: Wow man, look at that building.. That rocks..
FRIEND2: Whoa.. That's pretty big dude.

BAD VIBING:

FRIEND1: Wow man, look at that building.. That rocks..
FRIEND2: Dude, that's cool.. But man, you should see NYC. Man, NYC KILLS this place.


(JLAIX: If you're reading this, who does this remind you of? HINT: His first name is *LERON*).

Again, with these examples, the person who is not vibing right does not get something: The purpose of the initial comment was NOT to ACTUALLY debate it. It was to SOCIALLY VIBE. The content was not the REAL communication. It was a surface for SUBCOMMUNICATION, which INTENDED to say "Let's have a nice time, and have rapport with each other and relax."

The insecure and socially unintelligent person is taking the sentences of the first person, and FIELDING them as OPPORTUNITIES TO QUALIFY HIMSELF.


======


HIERARCHIES - ROLE IN SOCIAL INTERACTION:

We all get our moment in the sun at some point.

You'll notice, that when you are holding court, that sometimes people will be insecure with that.

The secure guy will recognize when its someone's turn to hold court, and not fight it.

A person who is secure will talk to ADD EMPHASIS to a point. He will not DISPUTE a point while someone is holding court. He knows that he'll have his chance LATER, and that right now someone is trying to get a point across.

Guys who are insecure will constantly dispute points whenever they see the opening. They view is at an opportunity to demonstrate their value.

They CANNOT RESIST the temptation.

For an example that everyone reading this can recoginze, look to this chatboard. Something tight will get posted. Insecure posters will nightpick semantics. Like "While this is important, its maybe an 8 out of 10 level importance. Not a 10 like you said." The secure poster, if he finds the level of emphasis on a level where its honestly mis informative, might post "I think that x,y,z are really good, man. I think that you might consider less emphasis on it though, because a,b,c are important as well. Good post though man, I like x,y,z"

ANOTHER feature you'll see on this board, and that is in the same vein, are THROWING LITTLE NEGS or TRYING TO COME OFF AUTHORITATIVE WHEN ITS NOT YOUR PLACE.

For example, you'll see guys trying to get rapport with someone they don't know by throwing little negs.

GOOD VIBING:
*OLD* FRIEND 1: Hey Stevo, you fucking bastard.. C'mere gimme a hug

BAD VIBING:
*NEW* ACQUAINTANCE: C'mere you fucker, help me out.

The second is BAD vibing, because he is trying to FORCE rapport with sub communication that is only appropriate of old friends.

Similarly, you'll see guys who try to come off authoritative. You'll see it on the board, where a guy will post something quality, and someone who doesn't like him will post "That's very quality material. Good that you posted something of quality". It's like he's trying to come off authoritative. Like he realizes that he's negged on the guy on the chat board, and he feels insecure that the guy he negged produced something worthwhile. So he has to come in and be all authoritative, like "I can show everyone that I recognize a good post". Guys in real life will see someone who they publicly disliked starting to improve himself, and say things like "Good that you're improving. KEEP IT UP." By this, they are trying to CONTROL what is happening. They are trying to say "Improve, because *I*, the AUTHORITY, approved."

More on this... If you've ever ever ran a very good presentation at work or school, and you see an insecure person come up to you and criticize.

They don't realize its YOUR TURN TO HOLD COURT. Their turn is LATER.

So they throw little negs at you. Like they always have to offer advice on how you could have improved it. They can't just say "Good job man".

Or they have to nit-pick subtleties. Like they can't say "That was awesome". They have to first go over their advise on where you fucked up.

For a real life example that most guys on this board can recognize, when you meet up with another guy from the scene through PAIR, if he's insecure he'll do the following:

1- Talk about game non-stop, rather than PLAY.
2- Watch you do a set, and CRITICIZE on what could be improved, rather than encourage.
3- You tell him about something that happened, and he gives you ADVICE, rather than just listening.



(continued on my reply...)

[Nick Krygier]

=====


SOCIAL INTERACTION WITH "VIBING" AS THE PRESUPPOSITION, NOT "DISCUSSING AN ISSUE"

When socializing, a good vibe will be set when the reason for being there is to enjoy each other's company.

However, sometimes a bad vibe can be set when the presupposition is that you're there for a SPECIFIC PURPOSE.

Of course, there is nothing wrong with purpose. It has a place, and more of my daily interactions have a purpose than those that are to socially vibe.

However, recognizing that tagging a set purpose to an interaction will often stop a nice vibe from occurring, will help with a pickup.

Insecure people will often LATCH onto a purpose for the conversation, as a way of maintaining it.

Then they'll leave on a "high note" once that purpose is exhausted.

This is a MAJOR cause of flaking. You maintained a conversation with a girl, but the presupposition was that you were discussing an issue. You left on the high note, but didn't realize that you were actually REINFORCING to the girl that you are not socially compatible.

When going to meet up with you again, she'll think "Well, we really have nothing more to talk about though. I don't want to have nothing to talk about, because that would feel uncomfortable"

As guys, we don't care. We might feel nervous that we'll have nothing to talk about, but we want sex. But girls, if the feel uncomfortable, they won't show up. That's one reason why guys who smoke pot get laid alot. Girls rarely flake on them, because they have that social presupposition that will give comfort. For the rest of us who don't smoke, we use SOCIAL VIBING rather than FORCED social interaction, to maintain comfort.

Clinging too strenuously to a particular topic can come across insecure. When you say to a friend "Let's go have a beer", the subtext is "Let's go socially vibe". You don't go discuss an issue, and say "Let's reconvene later". You go and you chill. You have a FRIENDSHIP. Non-party-chicks rarely flake on guys they have both attraction AND friendship with. But they do flake on guys who attract them, tongue them down, and say "Give me your #."


=====


PRACTICAL FEMALE INTERACTION:

In summary, how does this apply in practical terms?

Most of it comes in, during comfort building phase. Or if you use a different PU model than I do, then its when you're getting to know the girl either way.

1) Don't crack jokes to the girl, and laugh at them before she does. Wait. You'll notice that it sometimes takes even 10-15 seconds for a joke to process. But it DOES. I usually bust on her for it "Oh, slow processing time.. That's OK, you're my little sister.. I didn't adopt you for your brains"

Also, don't say "right" after everything. It can come across beta. Right?


2) When a girl is trying to impress you, RECOGNIZE it as her QUALIFYING herself. If you reject it, you'll come across insecure, or socially unaware.

This is DIFFERENT than the C&F stuff early, where you break rapport on purpose. In fact, much like how the "25 Points to not trying too hard" assumed that you were in EARLY GAME, this post to some extent at least assumes you are PAST early game.

SHARE her excitement by recognizing rhetorical social sequencing.


3) Recognize when its your turn to talk, and when somebody else is being focused on.

MUCH MUCH of the mid/later game is the chick qualifying herself to you.

Because our pickup model incorporates alot of not trying, you'll notice your best pickups (with NON-party-chicks at least) are with the ones who at some point EARN your attention.

They perceive that they've WON your interest, and plan to COLLECT THE PRIZE (your dick in their mouth).

4) If a girl tells you about a problem, just LISTEN and change her emotion. Say "Ouch, that's sounds tough.. But hey, you're a powderpuff girl, and you know you're to feisty to let this stop you.. Let's check out x,y,z"

Definitely don't offer advice. If she wants advice, she'll say "WHAT SHOULD I DO?" Unless someone asks me what to do, I rarely offer advice. OR, I say "You know i have experience with this, so maybe later you can ask me about it."

5) Focus on SOCIALLY VIBING and don't CLING TO TOPICS. This will prevent flaking, and make her feel comfortable around you.

Don't leave on a high note. THERE IS NO HIGH NOTE. There is only vibing and flipping the switches that she needs to have switched in order to fuck you.


Tyler Durden

[Ian Smith]

The Problem with Who Lies More

by Style

Whenever I'm winging workshops, and I go around the room and ask guys what opener they use, half of them say, "Who lies more, men or women?" And then I see them go out and use it that night, and half the women usually respond by either by asking, "Why are you asking us this?" or "Are you taking a survey or something." Or by just giving them bad body language and trying to end the conversation as soon as possible, then laughing at them behind their back.

I remember the opener suddenly appearing in the community like a year and a half ago, and can't remember who made it up, though I think it was a workshop student. And it is a great opener to learn, because it's so short.

But here's the problem: it's imperfect and incomplete. In my last post, I discussed subtleties that are necessary to make walk-ups airtight -- namely time constraints and negs. Well, there's also a subtlety to the opener: THERE MUST BE A REASON WHY YOU'RE ASKING IT.

In other words, you are just walking up to a group and asking a random question for no purpose. It's weird. You need to ROOT it in the time and place. For example, when I say jealous girlfriend, I mention that I'm asking because I just got a phone call from my brother about it or "we were trying to give my friend over there advice." When I do spells, I say it's about "my friend Will, who isn't out with us tonight because he's with this girl. You must ROOT your opener to make it a valid reason to approach a group.

Maybe some people who use Who Lies More actually give it a context, but no one I've heard. So if you are going to continue to use this opener, you MUST modify it, or find a new one. Examples of roots for the who lies more opener include:

"I was reading Esquire today and they did this study, and guess what the results were? My friends and I have been debating about it all day. We disagree." OR "My friend over there just broke up with his girlfriend because she kept lying to him about little things. And we thought it was funny, because guys are the ones who have the reputation for lying. But now he thinks women are worse. So we're trying to save him from being bitter about women for the rest of his life. Only you can help save him from ending up a lonely, miserable old man, eating dog food in a studio apartment downtown."

These are just random roots I've put into the opener, off the top of my head. I'll field test them and, in the meantime, if anyone field tests a rooted version of who lies more and it works as solidly as everything else, please post. Let's complete this opener so that everyone can start using it correctly and effectively.

Style

[Ian Smith]

Evolution Phase Shift

by Style

1. I tell her that she smells good and ask what she is wearing. Then I lean in, brush her hair aside, and sniff her slowly, moving up from the shoulder to the ear. "Mmmm, that smells good. People don't pay enough attention to smell. But you'll notice how animals, before they mate, will always smell each other. Evolution has hard-wired us to respond to certain things. You are wired to respond when someone smells you."

2. "It's like when someone pulls the back of your hair. You'll notice how lions, when they mate, always bite and tug at the end of each other's mane, right here." (Since I'm shaved bald, I'll add here, "This is what I miss the most about not having hair"; if you have hair, say, "This is one of my favorite things".) Then I run my hand up the back of her neck and grab a fistfull of hair at the roots and pull it, downwards. She says "mmmm..." And I say "see."

3. Then I talk about how "no one knows this, but the most sensitive places on the body are places that are usually hidden from contact with the air, like the back of the elbow (touching it) and knee (touching it). Any place where your body bends, twists, or folds, there are millions of sensitive little nerve endings that release endomorphins . Then I take her arm, bend it a little, and erotically bite the area on the opposite side of the elbow (that crease where it bends). She usually gets the chills, and I have her ratify how good it feels.

[NOTE FOR THE LESS EXPERIENCED: If you don't know how to erotically bite a girl, learn before you do this. You want to take a big chunk of skin -- not a little pinch! -- and slowly and firmly slide your teeth together until they meet and release the skin. You may want to practice on your own elbow first. Or on Twentysix's mom's elbow--just call her and tell her you know where all of her missing bras went to.]

4. After, I say, "But do you know what the best thing in the world is?...A bite...right...here." And I point to the side of my neck. (Every now and then, I'll add, that "this has to do with the fact that it is where the jugular vein is most exposed, and since most sexual fantasies have to do with submission and vulnerability, it sends all the fantasy signals flying.”) Then I'll expose my neck and say, "Bite me right here" as if I EXPECT her to do it. Fifty percent of the time she will. If she doesn't, I just turn away calmly (punish), wait a few seconds, and then turn back and repeat, "Bite me right here." Usually here she will.

5. Half the time, her bite is lame. If so, I correct her and say, "That's not how you bite. Come here." Then I give her a good bite on the neck and instruct her to "try again." This time, she ALWAYS does a great job.

6. Now you look her in the eye, smile micheviously/approvingly, and say, very slowly, "not bad." Then glance down at her mouth, back up at her eyes, and...yes...finally...you...may...if you want...and if she's ready...um...kiss!

Style

[Ian Smith]

The Secret World of the Player

by Tyler Durden

Many guys will dislike this, because it implies that women are sluts and untrustworthy. Well, I can only speak from my experience and report back what I've seen. I'm also posting in a semi-satirical tone - I haven't gone off the deep end..... yet...

A secret society exists. Around 52% of people on this earth are a part of it.

Of that 52%, 50% are women, 2% are men.

Of that 2%, 1% of those men are gay, the other 1% are players.

What I'm talking about is the sex secret society - and you are either *IN* or *OUT*.


SOME RULES OF THE SECRET SOCIETY:

1) Don't talk about the secret society.

2) The priority of the secret society is to have perpetually good emotions in all members.

3) Create shrouds around the secret society, like "all men are dogs". Hide the truth that women are far more likely to cheat than men.

4) If you are part of the secret society, you will never be denied anything at any point.

5) If you are not part of the secret society, you will scrap and beg for everything you get.

6) Communication in the secret society is less often verbal, and more often spoken through body language sub communications, and verbal sub communications that would only make sense to members. Any other way, and the 48% of men would pick up on it, and it would no longer be a secret.

7) At the first sign that someone who is not part of the secret society is possibly trying to pretend that he is, barate him with both love-rhetoric, and accusations of chauvinism and nit-witted-ness.

It's OK to cheat on someone who is not a part of the secret society, so long as it is for the purpose of fulfilling the needs of someone who is, or if it to fulfill your own needs and it is with someone who is a part of the secret society. Sleeping with a rare guy from the secret society is no worse than grinding with a girlfriend at a club and making out with her. "It doesn't count".

9) Nobody judges each other in the secret society. There is no such thing as a slut. A slut is only as slutty as people who are NOT in the secret society are aware of.

10) Secret society members COME FIRST. If someone in the society is not having fun with an interaction, it is cut off. Conversely, if a secret society male is with a non-secret-society male, and a secret society female (all females) decides she wants sex from the secret society male, the friend of the female may have sex with the non-secret-society male, because EVERYONE in the interaction must feel good. However, if the non-secret-society male is blowing himself out so badly that he makes the female member feel very bad emotions, then the secret-society-male must face the consequences of bringing negative emotions into the equation, and lose out on his privilege for sex in that interaction, until he ditches the non-secret-society male. Bear minimum requirements for non-secret-society males being grandfathered in with the male member, is that he not qualify himself or make anyone feel uncomfortable. Failing to meet those requirements, both are blown out.

WHAT IS THE SECRET SOCIETY?

Women are repressed by men, and so must look out for themselves. They will take care of:

1) Their own sexual needs.

2) The sexual needs of anyone in the secret society.

3) The sexual needs of the few males who make the secret society possible ("players").

The secret society is what allows women to appear wholesome and allows them to screen for a long term provider/emotional tampon.

Women hold off to find the perfect boyfriend, while sleeping with a guy who is likely sleeping with all of their friends, and their friends friends.

They also fuck their gay boyfriends or jerk them off or give them head. They're part of the secret society too, so they can't be left out.


EYE WITNESS ACCOUNTS FROM SECRET SOCIETY INSIDERS (based on dozens of interviews I did over the summer, with girls in London England, as well as some from my own experience as a player):

1) If you tell a girl that you're gay, and that you want to "see what it feels like to be with a girl", she'll sleep with you. She won't insist on using a condom either, unless you do. You're part of the secret society, where condoms aren't necessary because they are logical entities and not emotionally relevant.

2) If you sub communicate that you are a part of the secret society, and tell the friend of your target "I'm really lonely. My girlfriend cheated on me, and I need to re-validate myself tonight", she'll tell her friend to fuck you. Her friend will realize from this that you are a part of the secret society, and she'll fuck you. Moreover, if the friend refuses, the ugly girl will offer you a blow job to help you out.

3) If you manage to verbally sub communicate that you are a member (its still sub communication, because the verbal ways you communicate it aren't direct at all), the secret society members will gladly tell you all about their sexual exploits and adventures. As soon as you sub communicate that you desire romance, she will immediately retract all of her previous statements (and she'll look completely congruent doing so), and downplay them that it was something she did just one time and that she's looking for a relationship.
PUA: "I love to go out and hook up. I hate it when girls try to run my life"..
HB: "Me too.. I hooked up with guys all last year.. My boyfriend tried to control me, but I do what I want.. My girlfriends all do it too."
PUA: "Really? Cause to be honest, I've always felt like I'm a romantic guy.. And girls always cheat on me.. I want to find a girl who won't cheat."
HB: "I would never cheat. Guys are dogs. I'm always loyal."
PUA: "But didn't you say..."
HB: "No, I said nothing."
PUA: "No, you said that you don't let your boyfriend control you and you do what you want."
HB: "No, I didn't mean that. I'm not a slut. I have no idea what you're talking about, I didn't say that."

4) If you are a member, and say that you are really lonely and you need someone to snuggle and make-out with, all members of the secret society will agree to do so with you. If you are a girl, you have privilege to snuggle and kiss and sleep in the same bed as all other girls. If you are gay, you can do the same. If it escalates to sex, its an accident and does not count. If you're a player, and you make girls around you emotional, and the friends are all in good emotions about it, they sleep with you. No one is a slut in the secret society, because the secret society does not judge.

5) If a group of girls living together find a guy who is in the secret society, they will all fuck him. They'll recommend him as an honourary secret society member, and enjoy him. Meanwhile they may be in relationships with non-secret society members that they've fallen in love with, however this is not an issue because nobody in the secret society judges and sex with people in the secret society does not count. If you are a secret society member now, but in the past enjoyed a romantic relationship, what you may not realize is the part that was left out of the romance novel story (due to rules no1&2 of the secret society code), which was that after you dropped her off your romantic star watching, a secret society member came by and fucked the shit out of her without a condom and gave her the money shot all over her face.

6) If a secret society male has a non member male friend, the friend of the girl who wants sex from the male member will have sex with the non-member even if she doesn't like him. However, rules state that if if the non-member is "creepy/scary" (kinos too much, leans in too much, asks dumb questions, tries too hard to impress, over qualifies), then the male member will be expected to return either alone or with another male member. Also, the male members must remember that positive emotions are always priority, and if he is alone he must still maintain the positive emotions of the female member who will not be getting sex, secret society rules not to be breached. Number 1 rule of the secret society, outside of not talking about it, is that EVERYONE maintains GOOD emotions.

THE UNDERLYING MISUNDERSTOOD TRUTH OF THE SECRET SOCIETY:

The 49% of men who live outside of the secret society don't understand the mental model of attraction of people who are in the secret society.

Men view attraction in their MALE MENTAL MODELS. They believe that attraction is "sexual aggression". They understand attraction as having a physical urge to have sex, and then mentally deciding that you will go after it.

They try to seduce women by touching and grabbing them, and getting them very horny. They try to seduce them in the SAME WAY that a woman would do well seducing THEM. They try to seduce them as if they were seducing a GUY. This sometimes works, and the propaganda is spread - "this is how to get chicks".

Secret society members will not fill them in, due to breach of the code.

What the secret society members are not telling you, is that they understand that most sex occurs when women are not sexually AGGRESSIVE, but sexually RECEPTIVE.

They understand that for women to be ready for sex, they need not feel horny, they need only feel EMOTIONAL.

(continued in next post...)

[Ian Smith]

They understand that women are not logical, and that they are emotional. They understand that for women sex is not a big deal at all, and that its their LOGIC that puts the breaks on it.

They understand that most women are afraid of sex because they lack TRUST, and because their LOGIC is putting on the breaks.

They disarm logic by making the women EMOTIONAL, so that their LOGIC (which is the BREAKS of emotion) becomes disarmed, and at the same time maintain TRUST, so that the emotions generated won't be interfered with.

Then they simply have sex, because although the women are not WANTING sex, they are too EMOTIONAL to DECLINE sex. Then, once they BEGIN to have a physical interaction, the women become horny and sexually aggressive as a result, and sex begins.

(NOTE: This is why girls must COCK BLOCK for each other. Because they know that clubs are emotionally charged environments, and that it wouldn't take much for a guy to use her resulting sexual receptiveness to lay her. The guy may not be a guy that the girl would lay normally, were she feeling more logical, so the girls must look out for each other. Guys don't need to do this because firstly, they will not be judged for sleeping around (no logic), secondly, they are sexually aggressive - not receptive - so their decisions will not be regretted later usually, and thirdly, because they do not need trust because they are not usually in any physical danger).

They also understand that value + trust + attraction = sex (rough lazy model).

Value = being someone in the secret society (it can also be SO many other things, but being a member can in some cases be sufficient)

Trust = not telegraphing interest

Attraction = increasing her buying temperature by making her emotional (emotionally aroused, not necessarily physically aroused.. the former will cause her to be too illogical to prevent you from causing the latter, when she's ready)


Don't tell anyone about this. All knowledge will be denied and you will be ridiculed.

Tyler Durden

[Ian Smith]

Implementing a Habit

by Tyler Durden

I noticed a pattern recently about how I implement habits.
Here is how I implement a habit.

Usually I'll get some idea of some over the top thing that I want to accomplish.

So maybe I weigh 120 pounds and I want to make the college football team. Or maybe I've had failing grades all through high school and I want to get in to the best college. Or maybe I can't get a girlfriend and I decide to be a PUA. I have tons of these.

First I will get an idea of what I'm trying to accomplish and what will be involved.

I have the general principle that while I'm not that smart, I know that most other people aren't that smart either. Or rather, its not that people aren't that smart, but just that most people walk through life in a trance and generally don't break out of their habits. They just listen to what other people tell them and aren't willing to look at the finer details of things, so it is easy to get to the top of any field if you are willing to do that. Everyone thinks that there are all these conspiracies and super ways that people do things, but usually the top guys are just as disorganized as the average dudes on the street. It's like kids at top colleges who pay six figures to attend school. You'd think that they'd show up to class, but they don't show up any more than the kids in cheaper schools. Human habit is human habit. I figure that there is pretty much no limit of what level I can reach so long as I have an idea of what the top level looks like. In fact, I assume that I can surpass it before I even start.

From there, I decide what I'll have to do to get to that point. I figure how long it will take, and the habit that I'll have to integrate on a DAY TO DAY.

This is what I consider PROACTIVE and LOGICAL reasoning. I don't wait until some girl dumps me to start going out when I'm emotionally compelled, and then stop going out when I feel better about myself. That is REACTIVE.

Instead, I figure to myself, "Alright, I have to go out 3-7 nights a week for around three years. Fine."

At that point I FULLY ACCEPT that this is what I will be doing. I also am unlikely to change my plans, as I tend to think that if I can't trust myself to stick to one area then I can't trust myself to stick to my next area, so there if I'm going to be like that then there's no point in even starting anything.

The big thing for me, is that I will get out there whether the conditions are ideal or not. So if I'm not dressed properly, I will still get out there. If I'm not feeling well, I'll just go out for a bit and come home to keep the habit. I do the same thing in the gym if I have not slept properly or if I am busy or sick. If I know that I'm too tired to get a good workout I'll still show up and push through it. If I'm too busy then I'll just rush through it and won't worry about eating before or after. And if I'm sick then I'll at least show up to the gym and stretch.

I don't think about these things. I just accept them.

Now the big thing when you start something new is that progress is going to be non-existent at first and will go up in a j-curve if you can make it through the initial pain. Most people quit because starting something is REALLY hard and usually feels direction-less for a long time. The guys who make it through that initial part will eventually get to a level where progress is really fast and noticeable, and for them it will become a hobby and fun. But at first it is purely banging your head against the wall to make the most minuscule advancements. Not fun.

So in an area like pickup, if you are starting off as a total dork like I was then it is pretty much going to be zero progress for a few months. You will go out and people will be really unresponsive and hard on you. It won't change for a long time either, because the more you're getting rejected the more you're feeling shitty. The only plus side is that you're learning that you won't die, which is actually pretty important.

When you start anything, whether sports or dance or music, it will probably be pretty embarrassing and painful. You'll be around people who have it all figured out, and their neural connections will be fine tuned from what seems like infinite repetition. You'll see this, and it will just give you a headache. Literally, for me, I see this kind of thing and I feel nauseous because it is so intimidating.

The way I get through it is literally BLIND FAITH. I will figure out what the basic training is and do it OVER AN OVER, regardless of whether or not I get a result.

A big part of this is that I have NO OUTCOME for a very long time. My only outcome is to get my ass out of the house and to wherever I'm supposed to be. My criteria for success isn't how well I did. It's IF I SHOWED UP and did what I was supposed to do. My expectations of myself are very low.

I read posts on here about guys in the field for six months and frustrated that they aren't getting results, and I really don't relate to why they're finding this to be unusual. When I took my first workshop I was getting laid, but I had a major social fear of clubs and my goal was to learn how to game girls in that environment. It took me a few months to get my first club make out but I never thought anything of it. It wouldn't have occurred to me to be one of these guys who comes on a month later and says "I still haven't gotten laid." I was told that it would take me six months to get "passably not lame," and I took that at face value. There was no way after I spent all that time and money that I wasn't going to go out and do what the guy told me to do. That would have devalidated the whole thing. To be honest, although I learned a lot on the program, I couldn't remember shit afterwards because the whole thing was shocking like a whirlwind. The big thing I took from it was INSPIRATION and CONFIRMATION THAT IT WAS POSSIBLE. That was ALL I needed to get good.

First I learned how to open in a club environment. OK, got that. Then how to hook attention for thirty seconds. Ok, got that. Then how to tell stories. OK, got that. Then how to tease and create sexual tension. OK, got that. Then how to get a number. OK, got that. Then I realized they all flaked. OK, scrap everything, back to the drawing board. Then how to deliver it better. OK, got better reactions. Then how to slow it the fuck down to get the same reactions without being a dancing monkey. OK, got that. Each of these took weeks or months at a time.

The process went on for years, but now I have the exact result that I want.

Guys say to me "Wow, you had such dedication" and I can't relate to that. To me, that's like telling a kid who goes to play basketball after school for a few years that he has dedication. It wasn't dedication. It was a routine. A habit. A hobby. I made the time for it in my life, and I never worried about how well I was doing. I assumed with blind faith that everything would take care of itself if I just kept going out and meeting people to get advice on how I was doing.

Jlaix and I were talking, and he was like "Dude, my skills are in like the stratosphere lately. It's getting so good it's scary." I was like "Think about it. Remember back in the day when we were dorks, and we were like 'all we have to do is go out for six months and we'll be decent'? Six months seemed like forever back then, but now six months breezes by like its nothing, and every time that happens our skills are going up at the same rate that they were back in the day. The improvement keeps compiling and that's why these results are showing up."

If you think back to the last six months or a year, it seems like nothing. That time passes so fast. You get older and decades start to fly by.

When you implement a habit, you're thinking about the outcome and how hard the training is. So you go through the one night and because its one of your first nights you remember every detail and it seems like a lifetime. And then you think "Six more months of THIS? Or a YEAR?!"

But that's the wrong thinking. If you're thinking like that there is no way you'll get anywhere. The point is to just keep going out and not try to get results. Just go out and do your exercises and it will come naturally. Don't think of it as "Six more months." Think "This is what I'm doing now. My day consists of this now. This is my lifestyle."

To me, it comes down to this: 1-Get an idea of what you want. 2-Formulate a plan of how often you need to show up to get there. 3-Accept that your new activity is a part of your life for the duration of the time you've decided, and never decide based on emotions if you're going to show up or not. Just show up. 4-Don't worry if you're getting results, just stick to the plan with blind faith, and make your criteria for success just to show up. 5-Make it a hobby, look at the details critically without taking advice dogmatically, and take the initiative to shift the focus of your training when your intuition tells you that it might help.

Don't focus on chasing outcome. Focus on sticking to habits. Make your criteria for success if you stuck to the habit.

Anyway, hopefully that was helpful to some people.

Tyler Durden

[Ian Smith]

25 Points

by Tyler Durden


This is some of the main shit I focus on fixing when I'm in the field. Almost EVERYONE I met so far screws up this shit, and it totally fucks up their sarges.

Taught a few hundred guys by now just from meeting guys through PAIR and in workshops recently, and this is the shit that ups their game instantly with no tactics or anything. I see this shit ALL THE TIME. It's the BIGGEST and most COMMON problem I see after everyone I've met. This is some of the main shit I focus on fixing when I'm in the field.

Almost EVERYONE I met so far screws up this shit, and it totally fucks up their sarges.

If you do this, don't feel bad. 99% of guys I meet do it to various extents (myself included).

This is the extension of the "10 alpha qualities" post, which was when I was first figuring out what this shit meant. Back then, I was just posting observations. This post contains conclusions, having now thought about it.

ERADICATE this shit, and your game will go up B-I-G-T-I-M-E, more than ANY tactics will help you. This is part of what's called being a "natural". Even with nothing else, if you know this stuff you'll do well socially, and probably get laid. This stuff is the KEY.

This stuff is only for people who play the REAL game, not the INTERNET ARMCHAIR GAME. So guys who don't actually PLAY can skip this, because there's not much theory in it - its directly applicable.

1) FIDGETY MOVEMENTS AND TIGHT SHOULDERS AND TAKING YOURSELF TOO SERIOUSLY OR BEING TOO BUSINESSLIKE OR "SOPHISTICATED" (not laughing or being relaxed) = very visible subconscious (or conscious) self-doubt, overcompensating through non-relaxed state, where you're prepared to deal with anything that could happen. Ever met someone who doesn't blink when you talk to them?


2) TALKING TOO FAST = worried that people will stop listening to you unless you get out something that will interest them before they leave


3) LAUGHING AT YOUR OWN JOKES = covering up that you aren't affected that others didn't laugh, and social nervousness


4) SAYING "RIGHT" OR "YOU KNOW" AFTER STATEMENTS = seeking validation that what you said was true, or saying it because others aren't


5) STANDING WITH LEGS NOT HALF A METER APART AT LEAST = worried that you'll infringe on other people's personal space


6) TALKING TOO SOFTLY OR LOUD = fear that you'll impose yourself on people and their personal space(ie: beta).. alpha males aren't afraid to project their voice.. YET, talking obviously too LOUD can also be seen as OVERCOMPENSATING. Just like guys who wear GENERIC clothes are trying to fit in, or guys who wear OUTRAGEOUS clothes are trying too hard to overcompensate. (hint: be careful with peacocking, find a style that doesn't come off this way, which can be tricky but is still very doable).. Some guys don't talk, some talk too much, etc etc.. Find appropriate balance through trial and error, which is determined through social observation,


7) MOVING YOUR HANDS AROUND WHILE YOU TALK = trying to keep the attention of the group (sometimes can be cool, but most often a form of qualifying yourself)


8) LEANING IN *or* 'PECKING' = too eager to talk.. NEVER lean in no matter how loud the environment is MAKE HER LEAN IN or just leave but NEVER lean in or "peck" as its also called.


9) FACING BODY/FEET TOWARDS HER BEFORE SHE EARNED IT = trying to gain rapport with her too eagerly.


10) CHASING WHEN SHE WALKS AWAY = hoping she'll listen. If a chick moves away from you, move your bodylanguage MORE away from her, so she'll be drawn back.. don't CHASE her... WTF?!@?!?


11) NOT WITHDRAWING (back turns, etc) WHEN SHE DOES SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULDN'T TOLERATE FROM AN UGLY GIRL OR A GUY = trying too hard to pick her up


12) ANSWERING QUESTIONS TOO QUICKLY/EARLY = too much interest in the conversation


13) TURNING YOUR HEAD (OR "SNAPPING") WHEN YOU'RE ADDRESSED = too eager to be in convo.. so if your head is facing the other direction, and a girl says something to you, turn it SLOWLY to her, don't snap it out of eagerness to hear her


14) GOING BACK TO A PRIOR THREAD THAT WAS INTERRUPTED AT THE FIRST CHANCE/BREAK-IN-CONVO THAT YOU GET = trying too hard to impress them.. (ie: when a thread gets broken off in the convo, and you go back to it FIRST chance you get when the other topic ends, you look like you were WAITING to get back to it.. WHY are you so eager to get back on it, unless you don't feel comfortable around the person and you need to qualify yourself to them?) WAIT until THEY say "what was that you were saying before?", and THEN go back to it.. if it doesn't happen, *DROP IT* even if it was good.


15) NOT APPEARING MORE INTO YOUR WINGMAN THEN THE CHICK = trying too hard to pick her up.. you've known your wingman longer than her.. why do you pay more attention to her than your wing???


16) TOO EAGER TO PAY ATTENTION - SAYING "what?" IF YOU CAN'T HEAR HER, PRIOR TO BEING IN RAPPORT = too much interest in what she's saying.. if she mumbles, just STACK OPENERS into an entirely DIFFERENT topic, RATHER than saying "what?" This is fucking KEY KEY KEY. If you say "what?" you'll lose her unless you're already past attraction and into rapport. If this happens, just run a new opener and change the topic. 1- you don't look too eager, 2- you look alpha for being disinterested in what she's talking about which helps anyway

[Ian Smith]

17) REPLYING WITH OVERLY THOUGHT-OUT OF LOGICAL ANSWERS OR WITH OVERLY CLEAR/FORMAL PRONUNCIATION = being concerned that you won't be accepted unless you convince really well (eg. HB: why did you ask me that... RIGHT = I'm talking. (sit and stare) WRONG = because I really need to know since I've been thinking about this for a while.. the FIRST one conveys that you won't qualify yourself to her)


18) TAKING TOO MANY SENTENCES TO STATE AN IDEA THAT COULD BE STATED IN LESS SPACE = qualifying yourself. Commander Zap emails me a few months ago: "Remember TD, don't write what you can say, don't say what you can wink, don't wink what you can smile" TIGHT. The shorter you can explain something in, the more PROFOUND you'll appear. Why? You're not qualifying yourself. (ironically I'm massively guilty of this, due to the fact that I post when I'm really tired - see #21 to spot what was wrong with this last sentence)


19) BEING BOLD INSTEAD OF CONFIDENT = that you know that you can't pick her up, so you compensate with self-defeating actions so that the snub can be on "your terms". Saying "I'm sexy right?" or "baby I want some of that" or even just approaching when the logistics are totally unrealistic is too eager, because a CONFIDENT person wouldn't feel the NEED to say these kinds of things.. these things are symptoms of OVERCOMPENSATION for INSECURITIES.. which leads to..........


20) OVERCOMPENSATING INSECURITIES = fear of not being accepted. Have you ever met a janitor who the first thing he says is "money is over-rated.. I would never get caught up in the corporate world" blah blah.. if they'd have just said "I'm a janitor" and LEFT IT AT THAT we wouldn't have even THOUGHT that anything was wrong with it.. but because they INSTANTLY start overcompensating, it comes off as overcompensating or qualifying. Same with if they BRING IT UP TOO EARLY. Like "hey, I'm Steve.. I'm a janitor and I love it".. They're TRYING to be cocky but it comes off as COMPENSATING. BE COMFORTABLE WITH YOURSELF. If you're BALD, don't say "would you love a bald man?" as a pickup line. It's not COCKY.... its BOLD. If you're bad looking, don't say "don't you think I'm sexy". Just be comfortable with yourself, and don't bring up the issue at all.


21) OVERCOMPENSATING FAILURE OR SHORTCOMINGS = fear of being judged.. if you do poorly on a presentation, or on a sarge in front of a wingman, or on a test, DO NOT SAY DUMB SHIT LIKE "I'm really tired". EVEN IF you're ACTUALLY really tired, the mere act of saying "I'm tired" comes off as QUALIFYING yourself to the person. Just don't bring it up. If you have shitty clothes on, don't say "I have nicer clothes at home." Just don't bring it up. If you meet a girl when you're dressed bad, don't say "I have the coolest club clothes at home" Just don't bring it up.


22) GOING BACKWARDS IN THE PICKUP ON HER SCHEDULE = too eager to lay her.. if you've already GONE THROUGH the whole "let's ball bust and shit test each other" attraction phase of the pickup, and you're now in RAPPORT -> if she tries to ball bust you at this point then just WITHDRAW ATTENTION. DO NOT BALL BUST BACK. It seems COUNTER INTUITIVE, but once you've gone through that whole little attract phase, and you're now being nice to each other in rapport, DO NOT let her rewind the sarge by answering her ball busting with ball busts of your own. Just withdraw attention, to show that you're not interested in going BACKWARDS in a sarge.


23) WAITING FOR HER IF SHE LEAVES FOR ANY REASON (LIKE SAYS "I'M GOING TO THE WASHROOM, WAIT HERE) = too eager and into the convo.. if she goes to the washroom, make sure you're into another set by the time she gets back.

24) OVERLY REMEMBERING DETAILS ABOUT PAST CONVOS = convo means too much to you, because the person has unusual value to you (ie: a hot chick). Of course, I'm not advocating to be a total dick, but the general rule of thumb is that if you wouldn't have remembered a FAT CHICK or a GUY saying it, then don't remember the HB9 chick saying it. If some random dude said it and you would have remembered, then FINE. If you were in an unusually intimate convo that's also fine. But otherwise FAKE forgetting, even if she's a model and you remember every word. Even forget her name. If you see a random chick from your class or work, but you never talked to her, OPEN LIKE YOU DON'T KNOW HER. Don't give into the temptation to say "we work together". Just open like a random chick, and maybe if you get snubbed then pull out that card to save face, but only as a LAST RESORT.


25) OFFERING TOO MUCH ABOUT YOURSELF TOO *EARLY* = too eager to make them like you.. subcategories of this are:

A) Verbally: if you say to a chick "yeah, I just got back from NYC (or any cool place that would impress)" or "yeah, I just got my Rolex fixed", or "yeah, my stripper ex-girlfriend told me..." then she PICKS UP on the fact that you're trying too hard to impress her.. Same with NAME DROPPING.. DON'T GIVE GIRLS YOUR RESUME TOO EARLY.. Personality conveying routines should convey personality COVERTLY, so it looks like the story is just SO COOL that its WORTH TELLING on its own accord, and it just HAPPENS to have some good things about you in it. When offering good things about yourself, don't offer boring details. Say it with less detail, and it seems less eager. INSINUATE THAT WHICH YOU ARE TEMPTED TO ELUCIDATE (holy shit, I just made up that last catchy sentence, but I've gotta say that I'm the shit.. right?)

B) Entertaining: If you have stuff like patterns, or the CUBE, or magic, or photos, or palm reading, and you do this EARLY, it comes off as TRY-HARD. Personally I don't use any of these things, but alot of guys do, and when they bust them out prior to the chick EARNING it, it comes off TRY-HARD. Use the stuff LATER, but not right away.

C) Wanting rapport with someone who didn't earn it: WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT??? I swear to god, almost *EVERY* PUA I meet live in field does this shit, and its SUPER LAME. Going up to a chick and saying "nice necklace" or "what's your name" or "where did you get that?" is FUCKING DORK SUPER LAME. WHY THE FUCK DO YOU CARE ABOUT THIS STUFF FROM A R-A-N-D-O-M PERSON????? The counter argument to this is that you're not hiding your desires blah blah blah she's a hot girl and she should be happy that you're approaching, but this is INTERNET RHETORIC.. and this approach is STILL hiding your desires behind the GUISE that you're nice, so even if the rhetoric was true, it would STILL be ineffective... In the INTERNET ARMCHAIR GAME this stuff is FINE, but in the REAL FIELD GAME this shit screws you over before you've even started gaming. It's fucking bullshit, and NOBODY who isn't very goodlooking or socially proofed (or whatever high value) PRIOR to going in, can make this kind of approach work consistently on HB8.5+ chicks. TRYING FOR RAPPORT TOO EARLY IS QUALIFYING YOURSELF TO HER BECAUSE SHE HAS NOT EARNED IT.

D) Talking without feedback: When you're talking to someone, and they don't give feedback, and you're talking and talking, you BETA YOURSELF. It's a DOWNWARD SPIRAL, where you start talking TOO MUCH, and you SENSE that you're qualifying yourself, so you overcompensate EVEN MORE by TALKING and TALKING more and more.. Then you feel more and more beta'ed because you qualified yourself, and you're left treading water, grabbing at ANYTHING that will impress the person, so you keep talking in hopes of saying that one thing that will impress them. AVOID this by not talking too much unless THEY give some feedback. IN THE FIELD you do this by PAUSING and FORCING them to fill in the awkward gaps.

Tyler Durden

[Ian Smith]

How to be a good Wing

by Tyler Durden


Researchers have found that males' testosterone levels are effected even by trivial events such as their favorite sports team winning or losing a game. Our testosterone varies depending on the level of success that we have.

Mystery calls this MOMENTUM.

Our state DRASTICALLY affects our ability to pickup girls. They pickup on it.

When I'm in a good state, I can perform at elite levels. On some *rare* occasions I've seen my game run even as tight as Mystery's.

I'll feel great, practically invincible. Cocky as ever, I feel like I can pickup any chick in the club - and I CAN.

I CAN THINK OF ALL THE *RIGHT* THINGS TO SAY. ROUTINES AND LINES ARE FLOWING OUT OF MY MOUTH EFFORTLESSLY. I AM FUNNY, SHARP, COCKY, AND ITS ALL EFFORTLESS. I AM *ON*.

Other nights, I cannot initiate a chat to save my life. SERIOUSLY, I CANNOT INITIATE A CHAT. No exaggeration. I'll try, but I'll be snubbed over and over.

Literally, no exaggeration. I get sub-AFC. This happens to me at least one out of every 5-6 times that I'll go out.

------

So what causes this???

It has to do with how ALPHA you feel at the time, and the BIOFEEDBACK that you get as a result.

WHEN YOUR WING'S GAME BREAKS DOWN - PROCEDURES:

In the past, when my wingman's game had broken down, I'd stop and start running strategy and criticism on why it has occurred. Try to get to the bottom of it, etc etc.

This has NEVER been helpful, and has always just made things WORSE. It never got good results.

What I've figured out now, is that GIVING ADVICE is OUT-ALPHAING your wingman.

By taking your advice, your wingman is BETA-ing himself.

Doing this in PICKUP is CATEGORICALLY DIFFERENT than in tasks such as academic work, because ALPHA STATE will DICTATE RESULTS.

In academic work, for example, you can take advice from someone, and it will improve your final draft.

However, during pickup, as you take advice, you feel beta-ed, and your results become WORSE and WORSE.

Again - taking advice during ANY other activity is EFFECTIVE, because the advice is HELPFUL.

Because the MERE ACT OF TAKING ADVICE makes you feel beta, it is UNHELPFUL. Therefore you must always AVOID giving advice to your wingman IN FIELD, and SAVE it for a post-game DEBRIEF.

It is my opinion that STRATEGY SHOULD NOT BE DISCUSSED WHILE IN THE MIDST OF PLAYING THE GAME, and should be saved for a post game debrief.

THE SOLUTION:

When your wingman's game breaks down, the KEY is to AVOID talking about pickup. Realize that the SMALL AMOUNT of strategy that you can discuss will NOT change your wingman's game enough in such a short period of time to effect substantial change in his game. The SOLUTION is to TAKE A BREATHER, and just go play pool or go outside for a bite to eat or something. JOKE AROUND.
Do NOT address that his night is going poorly. AVOID it.
If he asks why, just say "dude, you're MONEY.. those chicks were defective anti-social.. do you wanna go find some NORMAL SOCIABLE CHICKS?" and then let HIM direct you back in.

LET YOUR WINGMAN TAKE CHARGE of the situation, so that he can RETURN to alpha-state.

Do NOT start offering advice, or you will BETA his state.

Do NOT tell him about all the chicks you are picking up.

Just joke around, and put him into a situation that will BOOST his state / elevate his testosterone / *whatever*.

**Get him to TAKE CHARGE in a way that is SUBTLE, so he doesn't know that you are deliberately patronizing him.

If you can prod him to do something that makes him feel alpha, he will return to alpha-state, and again become a helpful and effective wingman.

This is important of course, for 2sets and just because in general, your wingman should be social-proofing you. An ideal pair of wingmen don't cock farm each other out. They BENEFIT and SOCIAL PROOF each other, because they are BOTH cool guys.

A tactic that helps with this is:

ACCOMPLISHMENT INTRODUCTIONS:

When my wingman comes in, I give him the BEST introduction possible.

"Guys guys! This is Twenty six! This is the COOLEST MUTHAFUCKA on the ENTIRE PLANET.. If you talk to this guy for even 30 seconds, you will clearly see that he is the coolest fucking guy"

Then update him on what you've been chatting the chicks about, so he can throw in his 2c.

This also sets the frame that you are more into your wing than the chicks. "Bros before hoes" mentality. Makes you seem cooler and thus more attractive to the set.

----------

Alpha hierarchy bullshit will dictate whether or not you pull the FINEST girls on any given night.

Take for example the parties that I'll attend. On nights when I am the coolest guy in the room, I have FULL ATTENTION, and I am the ANCHOR of the conversations. (as discussed in the post below this one).

On such a night, I WILL pull the hottest girls, or at very least have all of the attention and IOIs.

However, if a cooler/more alpha guy shows up, I will NOT have good results. I'll probably go home with nothing, or scraps.

Tyler Durden

[Chad C.]

i remember reading this post when i first got into the community. of all the things i have read, this is prob the best and most grounded...

[EvoJ]

I love this post! I read it on another site a while back and it seriously is all about some truth. Pay attention and you can build a habit pretty easy.

EvoJ

[EvoJ]

Yep. Pay attention boys and girls. You might hate tyler cause of the "The Game" but you gotta realize that he knows his shit.

The only problem here is that he tells you what not to do.. but some of it makes things difficult like #25. How the hell do you have a good conversation without establishing rapport before they earn it? What the hell do you do before they earn it then?

EvoJ

[Ian Smith]

How to REALLY PU

by Tyler Durden

WARNING: THIS POST DOES NOT CONTAIN MENTAL-MASTURBATION OR DELUSIONS OR STUPID SHIT. ALL CONTENT OF THIS POST IS ACTUALLY FIELD TESTED AND SHOWN TO BE EMPIRICALLY VERIFIABLE. ANY PEOPLE WHO ARE INTO ARMCHAIR SEDUCTION MAY FIND THE CONTENTS OF THIS POST OFFENSIVE.

OK, since I'm half asleep at 5am and in a rambly mood, you guys are getting privileged to the REAL way to PU, as opposed to the way that Destin9 suggests.

I am very pissed off at that article (as seen in my comments in the thread below), and I know it will fuck people up, so I'm typing out how to do REAL street approaches. This will be MESSY cause I am dosing in and out of consciousness.

Alright, I'm very tired but I'll try to sum-up some of the shit from my other posts.. If I sound arrogant or whatever its cause I'm pissed off by reading that Destin9 bullshit, because that Ursula Lidstrom book fucked me up for over 8-months (a book that advocates the exact same thing, although I STILL recommend it on account of its advice on BODYLANGUAGE which is even tighter than GWM, and certain attitudes, although you need to IGNORE the rest of the content)..

---

HOW TO PICKUP:

BODYLANGUAGE:

COLD APPROACHES:

You spot a chick you want. Now the most important thing is how you FACE her.

You roll up, and you don't face her UNTIL she is facing YOU. That means, if she is turned totally away from you, you literally TURN YOUR NECK ENTIRELY BACKWARDS while you talk, and ONLY turn when she turns.

Then, as she says stuff that she PERCEIVES as you being impressed by, you THEN turn to face her. This causes her to have the perception that

1) you are not needy/desperate/lame
2) she said something WORTH you staying

Have you ever won some stupid contest for a cracker-jack prize or some shit, and went and claimed it??? Even though if you had already owned it, and forgot it at the store, you never would have gone to even pick it up cause its so LAME.. but still, since you WON it, you go pick it up??? That's what this is like.

Give her the impression that you're only staying to talk because SHE said something that interested you to stay. Again, do this by ONLY turning once she
is turning FIRST.

The only exception is you can do little tests, like turning quickly towards her, to SEE if she'll BITE and turn herself.

MAKE HER TRY TO GET RAPPORT WITH YOU.

Then, after you get that, THEN start mirroring her and all that shit. Mirroring is FANTASTIC for getting deep rapport.

Finally, when you phase shift, use very sexual body language.

The sequence in my "gear shifting" post was:
-C&F until she tries to get rapport with "what's your name" or some variant
-rapport
-phase shift

So you turn away and make her TRY to get rapport with this cocky/funny guy, then you turn towards her normally, THEN when you phase shift you do the sexy body language (EC, triangular gazing, sidelong glances, lip licking, hair sifting, open palms, soft tonality, etc etc)


WARM APPROACHES:

If you have AI (approach invitation), then it is OK to use a more direct bodylanguage, or even the "hi" opener.

On warm approaches, feel free to go into phase shift bodylanguage right away, if she's comfortable with it.


-------

OPENERS:

For non-club PU (my absolute expertise, although my club game is getting kinda tight non-club is still way better), experiment with PROJECTING VALUE in your opener. That means that what you do/say projects VALUE to the chick, right off the opener. Some things of value to chicks are:

-fun
-imaginative
-funny
-intriguing
-frame-setting (sets challenges right off the opener)
-opinion
-kino/dominance-establishing
-role playing

Here are some QUICK examples, although I could go on ALL DAY on this.

FUN:
"Hey, check out that kid on Santa's lap.. wow, remember when x,y,z childhood memories??"

IMAGINATIVE:
"whoa, that is a NICE aquarium.. look at that.. OMG, we should totally hit up the bio-chem department, and get shrunk down like BARBIE AND KEN.. then we could swim around behind that coral right there.. see that.. and totally go on like an underwater adventure like in the Little Mermaid.. don't get any ideas though, Ken dolls do not come FULLY EQUIPPED" (this reverses the frame at the end as well as an added benefit)

FUNNY:
(pick up the LAMEST CD in the store, like something totally ridiculous) "OMG.. OMG.. this CD is fucking A-W-E-S-O-M-E..... pause for effect while she is gauging if you're serious...... hahahhahahahah" (so you just break out laughing, but not too obnoxious.. laughter is CONTAGIOUS, so take advantage)

You can use the same formula with CAT FOOD in a grocery store, or WHATEVER..
Humour = stuff that doesn't go together.

INTRIGUING:
"I just saw the most fascinating thing.. In this newspaper article (whatever, Jamie Lee Curtis story about her fatness or whatever)" (Ricki Lake even qualifies under this category, although I don't use it myself)

FRAME-SETTING:
"damn.. I-AM-SICK of this cafeteria food.. do you know how to cook? no?? ok we're broken up then, I'm going to find a woman who can cook.. (while she cracks up, talk to another chick)... OK, so you can't cook.. well what else do you have going for you??? are you adventurous" (transition to Swingcat style qualifying)

Again, you're qualifying her right off the OPENER. This is very POWERFUL.. more than stupid "hi, I want to meet you"

OPINION:
"do girls think that David Bowie is hot?" (better than "hi", because she actually ENJOYS giving her opinion on stupid shit like this)

KINO/DOMINANCE-ESTABLISHING:
wack her with a magazine... tap her.. as she walks towards you, make funny faces, and if she returns them then pretend to punch her while you grab her around her waist and start walking with her "you're cuuuuute.. you'll make a nice new girlfriend I think.." (Zan style line).. Follow this with QUALIFYING "wait a sec though, can you cook" and you are MOTHERFUCKING IIIIIINNNNNN LIKE FLYYYYNN BABY!!!!


ROLEPLAYING:
This is my ABSOLUTE TIGHTEST mall opener. This is SO FUCKING TIGHT I GUARANTEE nobody has tighter than this in a clothing store.

Grab a stupid jacket off the rack, and say "whoa, this is SWEET.. I should try this on NOW.. check this out.." .... then start moving to the mirror, and hopefully she'll start to come.. then GRAB BACK another jacket, the SAME ONE that you have. So now you BOTH try on the stupid jacket, and look in the mirror as you both look THE SAME. Put your arm around her like its for a silly-picture, and look in the mirror together.

Notice that this is EXTREMELY POWERFUL, because she is looking at the TWO OF YOU TOGETHER, wearing the SAME STUPID SHIT. It is ROLEPLAYING that you are like together or something already, like a stupid couple.

Then say "we should STEAL THESE", and watch her reaction, as you either playfully go along plotting how to do it, or she says NO. If she says "no", then GRAB HER STUFF, and PRETEND like you're running out the door with it..

She'll tackle you, and then you say, "know what?? i know a better way to make $$$.. I need a RICH girl.." and start QUALIFYING HER, the same way as the "girl who cooks" qualifier from the FRAME-SETTING opener from above.

-----

MID-GAME / EARLY / ATTRACTION:

OK, for mid-game, you have to GAUGE how much C&F and various other attracters she needs, in order for HER to try to get rapport with YOU. KEEP FUCKING WITH HER UNTIL *SHE* TRIES TO GET RAPPORT.

That means, do stuff like:
-lying game
-kiss game
-CUBE/SFields/4Questions
-calling her "bad"
-calling her "powerpuff girl"
-a billion other Cocky&Playful things

I do ALL of these C&F. The lying game I use to tease her and ask her funny questions. Kiss game is just PURE COCKY and works AMAZING (read post TD&26 vs. some lame club chicks). CUBE I make fun of her with, and qualify her.

THEN DO STUFF THAT IS F-U-N:
-make her spin around and asking her if she knows how to DANCE (this on the
street)
-make her TEACH YOU HER DANCE MOVES right on the street
-try on CLOTHES together
-teach her an ESP trick, and use it to FOOL PEOPLE together
-poke her and tickle her
-steal something from her and make her try to wrestle it from you

[Ian Smith]

------

MID-GAME / LATE / RAPPORT:

Now ONLY AFTER you've done this stuff, will she say:
"what's your name?"
"where do you work?"

etc etc etc..

What you do is SHIFT GEARS SLOWLY.

You answer with "GUESS" for the first TWO questions or so, and THEN you just ask ONLY what she asks you.

HER: what's your name
YOU: guess (but now switched OUT of C&F tonality into NORMAL tonality, so its still SWITCHING gears, but NOT TOO FAST since you're using "guess")
HER: tom
YOU: no
HER: cliff
YOU: no..
HER: whaaaaat????
YOU: TylerDurden.. what's yours?
HER: HBslut
YOU: cool.. I like that.. (compliment is FINE now, since she's interested)
HER: what do you do?
YOU: guess.. (NON-C&F tone.. NORMAL TONE)
HER: hahah.. ummm ok.. accountant..
YOU: haha.. no I'm definetely not that.. I'm (x-realjob)

Then let her ask you questions, and ask them back, LIKE NORMAL.. NO GAME FROM HERE ON OUT, JUST NORMAL GETTING TO KNOW EACHOTHER LIKE DESTIN9 WANTS.

MOST IMPORTANTLY:

G-E-T === R-A-P-P-O-R-T

I MEAN it.. Get DEEP rapport with the chick, so she fucking LOVES you and feels CONNECTED to you.

If you have laid the GROUNDWORK with the COOL opener (like one of the ones I suggested), and the C&F shit that projects the value that you are COCKY and FUN and PLAYFUL and CHALLENGING, then she will LOVE and RELISH getting to know you.

***AGAIN, the cocky shit is to get from POINT A (indifferent to you) to POINT B (attracted to you). If you have APPROACH INVITATION YOU DO NOT NEED THIS STUFF AND IT MAY POSSIBLY PUSH THE SEDUCTION BACKWARDS.

If you have AI, you CAN use the "hi" and all that bullshit, to great success.

The point is, though, GET RAPPORT. This is KEY. When you do a PURE C&F sarge, you must either FUCK CLOSE, or accept the FLAKE. This is because she comes out of state IMMEDIATELY after you leave, since you have NO RAPPORT. VERY FEW CHICKS will actually meet you for a 'get-together' if you have no rapport, no matter HOW MUCH C&F you did, and how much she was loving it.

FORMULA = C&F to get ATTRACTION, conversation/geniune to get RAPPORT.

Make her EARN the genuine rapport building conversation by showing you how PLAYFUL she is.

The SAME conversation that would have been LAME had you not laid down the GROUNDWORK, will seem CHARGED. TRUST ME, go TRY IT.

----

ENDGAME:

To SEAL THE DEAL, either use GUNWITCH METHOD SEXUAL STATE PROJECTION, or use a PHASE SHIFT ROUTINE.

GUNWITCH METHOD CLOSE: Use TRIANGULAR GAZING (someone should post a LINK to a site with the explanation, cause I'm too tired to explain this in detail). Look at her lips and eyes, lips and eyes, lips and eyes.. Tilt your head, lick your lips, touch her hair, lips and eyes, lips and eyes, lips and eyes, move closer, move closer, lips and eyes, KISS.

PHASE SHIFT CLOSER ROUTINE: Are you intuitive? OK.. Are you intelligent? OK.. Do you understand to follow directions? OK.. Give me your hands..

Take her hands, and run some ring based routine, or palm-reading or some BULLSHIT.. Then talk about soul-gazing and romans and how they knew emotional crap.. Then talk about emotions and it being ALL YOU NEED IN LIFE, and do The EVOLUTION PHASE SHIFT KISS CLOSE (check the Style/CPowles archive for it.. you grab her hair and say its a natural spot and feels good, and to do it to you, etc etc)

THEN, either ISOLATE, or talk softly and fun about FUTURE GET TOGETHER.

If you don't isolate and same-day f-close, FUCK THE #CLOSE and get a MEET with the chick. Maybe get the #, but REMEMBER that she may have a LIVE IN BOYFRIEND or HUSBAND, so do NOT push the #. Get the MEET, and make it CONVENIENT for yourself to get there on the chance that she flakes.

For meets, I suggest taking her somewhere that is absolutely COST FREE, and gets her adreneline going. Try taking her to a strip where they have sexy/outrageous clothing, and try it on with her.

----

THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN DESTIN9'S WAY, AND THE WAY THAT I'VE POSTED HERE, WHICH IS THE R-E-A-L WAY:

Destin9's way of PU'ing does not provide you with the chance to PROJECT VALUE to the chick, outside of your LOOKS.

Basically, Destin9 wants you to just go up, confident, say "hi", and cross your fingers. The ONLY good thing about it I guess is that you had the balls to approach, which is KINDA good, but still not usually enough for ELITE HOT CHICKS.

The confidence that guys like Twentysix or I have now, after 4 nights per week or NON STOP SARGING is probably enough, because we can FOLLOW it with TIGHT STUFF and have a PUA AURA. But for ANY guy who hasn't laid many many chicks yet, or hung out non-stop with a guy who has and modelled him, this approach is BULLSHIT.

This way, you project yourself as FUN/EXCITING/CHALLENGING/CONFIDENT.. Plus, by kiss closing by the end of the first encounter, you really set the frame for an early lay.

Just remember that PARTY GIRLS can OMIT the RAPPORT, while LIBRARIAN GIRLS can omit large chunks of the C&F/ATTRACTION. Girls who are IN BETWEEN can just take some of EACH.

What I've written here is the REAL SHIT, FIELD TESTED, and actually REAL.

Use the Destin9 way, but ONLY AFTER you have ESTABLISHED VALUE on yourself. THEN do it her way. Her way let's the GIRL CHOOSE what your value is, based on your LOOKS primarily (though I suppose a LITTLE BIT by your confidence, since you did approach and all, but still mostly by looks when it comes to the hotties)

Fuck all this other bullshit, this is HOW TO SARGE.

Good night, time for TylerD to go to sleep after a long night of sarging. I am fucking exhausted, and apologize for this post probably being shitty.. The content should still be good, if de-cyphered. I just really wanted to type this up on account of that lame-ass Destin9 shit that I read, that fucked me up so bad for 8 months when I read the same shit from some other FEMALE seduction expert.

TylerDurden


=======================================
On 2/3/03 12:21:00 AM, n3rv1 wrote:
>TD you are a self-proclaimed
>master.... yet you don't post
>any lay-reports. What gives?

OK tiger, settle down..

like I've said many times, I don't post shit about my personal life.. stop being a little bitch, just because your life is going shit right now, that doesn't give you any beef with me.. you're projecting nothing but negativity on to the board lately (same with MISSIONS board), and its only because of your LSE that other people's success hits you on an emotional level.. You know that I never proclaimed being the master (that would be Mystery or Rick H probably), and you're just misinterpreting me because you're a little bitch who has nothing going for him in life, and its IN YOUR HEAD that a post without softners makes you feel bad, because the person typing it sounds REASSURED with themselves, which doesn’t fit your model of the world.. in reality, if you’d get your life together, you’d have no problem feeling the same way, and it wouldn’t set off your LSE alarm (in fact it would be easier to read a post that was just straight to the point).. but instead you’d rather I didn’t just post what was on my mind, and you’d rather something that meshed better with your headcase problems.. you’re like a LSE chick.. you have no chance of ever having a high-profile job like I do because of your lifestyle, so you have no reason to care if people dig this shit up down the road.. you’d actually probably be even proud of being known as a scheming-plotting-womanizer, because then at least you’d be SOMETHING.. or maybe its that you think that MRSEX4UNYC shouldn't have posted either, since he didn't have LRs for the same reason..

whatever.. if you really cared for legit reasons, you would have emailed or asked Paps.. not asked out of nowhere with the "self-proclaimed" shit..

Either way, its my choice to post what I want, and I don't owe shit all explanation or accounts of my sexlife to some internet goof from Wisconsin.. if you're that desperate to know who has the stronger game, you or I, then go ask your wingman Paps who knows both our games very well IRL.

Get well, and post something USEFUL.

[Ian Smith]

LowRider wrote:

"OTOH, when I switched to the standard "Hi, whats going on?" with a smile and GOOD EC, like you said, it gets you into CONVERSATION. CHICKS WILL NOT BRUSH YOU OFF IF YOU SAY "Hi" BECAUSE IT IS FUCKING RUDE IF THEY DO. If they DO, then you can DEFINETLY bust on them for doing that."


---

This is a VERY important STICKING POINT in your GAME LowRider, and its GREAT that you posted this because once you read what I'm going to write you'll close alot more chicks.

The 'hi' opener is flawed BECAUSE of what you PERCEIVE as its best attribute. When you go up and say 'hi', you always get a good response, because the chick will most often feel inclined to be socially-courteous.. Even if you bust on her for not being sociable, if you don't have the C&F frame down well enough to open using it, then you won't be successful in that kind of busting on her anyway.. It'll just trigger her guilt, and make her chat you out of obligation.

This is what you DO NOT want.

(the ONLY exception being if your game is HEAVILY SS/NLP based, and you can turn her on using patterns and hypnotic demos, which is not typically a good route to take as a primary MO)

You want her SHIT TESTING you, so that you can use shit testing evasive measures to prove yourself to her, and get her TURNED ON.

That's one of the main BENEFITS to doing QUALIFYING right off the gate. You're even better using the KISS GAME at the VERY START of the PU, just to set that FRAME.

Here's an example of a fuckup that fellow ASFer 10magnet and I had tonight, PU'ing a stripper where 10magnet works (he works at a strip club).

10: hey.. do girls think that David Bowie is hot?
HER: I dunno.. I like (something here that I forget)
TD: oh dude.. this is a BAD GIRL..
HER: ha.. you know me 5 seconds after meeting me

(this is NOT GOOD AT ALL, because she's not ENGAGED sexually.. again, her agreement is NOT GOOD for the PU.. she is trying to CHAT US, which is NOT GOOD.. but watch how we turn it around)

TD: yeah right.. whatever.. you're like PG13 bad.. you can't hang with us unless you're FOR REAL.. are you adventurous? HER: haha, this is a challenge.. and if I was dumb enough to fall for it, I'd probably hook up with you guys (this chick is clearly WISE to the game, as she is a stripper)
10: oh, so I guess you won't be at the company picnic tommorow?
HER: hahaha.. in WINTER??
10: yeah, for real.. its at Nathan Phillips Square, tommorow at 3pm..
TD: yeah.. seriously.. show up.. WE'LL *BE-THERE*..
HER: hahahahha..

Then we STALL, and she's like "ummmm.. Monday tommorow eh? what are you guys up to" or some shit like that.. (this is REINITIATING CONVO, which is a strong IOI coming from a chick like this.. unfortunately we weren't really "sarging" since it was unexpected as well as 2-on-1, so we didn't exploit it like we normally would)

We saw the bartender at a restaurant later in the night, and he told us that she liked us apparently.. Had we just taken her answer to the David Bowie question, I can tell you from experience, there would have been ZERO attraction.

Point was, I could have gone into qualifying her for making enough $$$ from her job to support me, and shit like that (this I've done a million times and it works)..

Then we'd KEEP DOING THAT, to keep the frame of a PU. THEN and ONLY THEN, do you move into rapport building.

The BIGGEST FALLACY in ALL OF ASF is CONVERSION RATES.

OK, here is the problem with the CONVERSION FALLACY on ASF:

Guys start PU'ing women, but don't f_close them.. So they use certain lines that get GOOD REACTIONS, but not LAYS. Then the POST ABOUT THEM, saying a bunch of shit about how its a money line.. They don't CLOSE, so they extrapolate that it must be good, just because the REACTION they got was good, even though it didn't convert to a LAY. This is like wearing a CLOWN SUIT to a club - it gets good REACTIONS but no SEX.

An example of that is when an uglier guy says "I'm an ass model" as an answer to the work question. This is a GOOD line in terms of REACTION, but BAD in terms of CONVERSION TO LAYS. (some guys DO pull it off really well though.. I'm just GENERALIZING)

If you're ugly, its just REMINDING her of your shortcomings, and being a CLOWN. This is like if you asked a FAT CHICK what she does, and she says a "lingerie model".. this just REMINDS you of her nastiness even more..

So the "HI" opener is yet another CONVERSION FALLACY on ASF. YES, it can help you lay chicks who give you APPROACH INVITATION, or chicks who are on the SAME looks level as you. But it doesn't set the PICKUP FRAME on SUPER HOTTIES, the way that the VALUE CONVEYING openers that I've put examples of do.

If I were to do a test, where I'd spend 1 hour per day for a year, using "hi" as an opener on HB9+ chicks, and 1 hour per day using a challenging/qualifying opener, the result would be roughly something like:

HI OPENER:
-6 chicks opened and convo initiated / 0 snubs
-0 chicks successfully PU'ed - either fclose or non-flake meet (maybe one every
few weeks)
-5 HB9 chicks per year

QUALIFYING OPENER:
-2 chicks opened and convo initiated / 4 snubs
-1 chick PU'ed (2 days per week)
-100 HB9+ chicks per year (maybe you fuck 20 of them who the meet goes well, or
who you don't screen for personality flaws)

So your SP, IMO, is that you associate OPENING with SEXUAL INTERACTIONS, when the two are NOT related. Notice that you're AWESOME with PU right now (according to Twentysix), but you're not LAYING many chicks?? This is the CONVERSION problem at work, and its an extremely common problem.

Think on it.. give me your thoughts once you've tested it.

TylerDurden



more delusionally tired thoughts on this...


I'm thinking that the way that I do things IN CLUBS will not work on a REAL TRUE BLUE 10.. A stripper or aspiring actress, YES.. but not like a SERIOUS celebrity, like Alyssa Milano or some shit like that..

the way I figure it, is that the way I do things is extremely powerful even for 9.9s.. but for a CELEB chick, like the Cosmo chick I sarged the other day, my approach would have failed had it been in CLUBS, because of the social-proof based atmosphere..

I think that PURE MM (13 steps) would be the ONLY way of doing it..

As of right now, my club MO is different than 13 steps, because when I start CHALLENGING, the ALPHA chick of the group steps up, and her friends see that she may be interested, so they don't cockblock..

I keep them in the fold with shit like "you are the nice ones.. I'm hanging with you guys" (while I tease the target for being "bad").. LIKEWISE, I do the KISS GAME, and say "she is soooo gullible" to the obstacles, while I kiss-game the target, to INCLUDE the obstacles in the funny prank I'm playing, since they're all JEALOUS of the target anyway..

But for the most part, I currently focus LESS on the obstacles than the target, because this style is DISARMING in and of itself.. because you are saying YOU CANNOT HANG WITH ME, the obstacles don't cockblock the same way that they normally would...

so the approach relies LESS on social proof in terms of the obstacles LOVING YOU, and MORE on the obstacles not getting in the way, thus IMPLICITLY APPROVING of you..

STILL, this may NOT be ENOUGH to sarge a LEGITIMATE ESTABLISHED CELEBRITY, so I theorize that I do NOT currently have what it takes to PU a celeb in a club.. It worked on the Dahm Triplets ONLY because they are basically MENTALLY RETARDED, and the entourage, though thick, was still MANAGABLE..

still, an awesome approach for even the total hotties in any club.. but not for ELITE HOTTIES, by my projection..

Thoughts???

TylerDurden

[Ian Smith]

Active Disinterest

by Tyler Durden

Active Disinterest does not mean Asexual

I had a few thoughts this week, from watching some guys I was working with.

Some guys (I can't remember who) re-labelled the term Active Disinterest as "Tentative Interest". I think this came from Swinggcat, I'm not sure. To me this is all the same thing, but for some guys this distinction could be useful because they are learning only from text so it's important for the terminology to be as accurate as possible. Since they aren't seeing direct examples, nothing can be taken for granted I suppose.

A few pointers on this:

1- I always tell guys to focus on having fun and being social rather than appearing to be trying too hard to "pickup" (so as not to be perceived and treated as the next cheesy sexually needy guy of the night). But that said, I assume that guys are coming across like MEN here, and there is a sexual vibe between them and the girls already. Many guys I've seen though will take this too far, which is understandable, but IMO it's a mistake. I personally will pull a lot of stripper type stuff, like coquettish "You can't have me" looks. But in doing so, the fact that you're subcommunicating "you can't have me" *assumes* that the vibe between you is sexual. Otherwise, the idea of her not HAVING YOU wouldn't come up at all.. See? : )

Direct examples of ways to do so include quickly turning and facing the hot girl directly, moving a bit closer to her, and shooting a quick triangular gaze from hard eye contact down to her lips, then looking back up to her eyes and making a playful smile and backing away from her a bit to turn to her friends. Watch the girls go insane at this. You could then shoot her a playful nod like "Not gonna happen". Then engage the friends a bit, even though the hot girl knows there's something between you, and watch her work to get your attention by trying to cut in. Then when she pulls her typical "I can get what I want" girl jumping in front of everyone stuff to get your validation, say "Hey! Wait your turn. How do you guys roll with this girl?!", and then give her another VERY sexual playful look, then back off again. Even shoot her a touch on the shoulder and raise your eyebrows, and back off again. Often she'll throw herself up in your face at this point, and from there you can work her directly because she's chosen you. With group theory, and ignoring the target, that doesn't always mean *full* ignorance. It just means not making the friends socially uncomfortable, so that you can benefit from the girl thinking "Wow, my friends love this guy", which can only help you. It doesn't mean get pre-occupied and distracted from the goal, though, by being focused on the wrong things. Otherwise you'll get cases like the hot girls walking off so their UG friend can have a chance with you, which some newbies have reported.

Again, much apologies to the guys to whom this is a blatantly obvious truism, but after some recent posts cropping up, I suppose that it needed clarification.

Point is, once the girl has chosen you, you can get her comfortable (as posted in T/T recently) and sit her down and WORK.

For me, it is more efficient to bait the girl into chasing me within 1-2 minutes, then going in and having her screening me and working against the current. Because I have my body language and confidence down fully, I am not concerned about being sexually needy with my openers, and I know that the girls will take care of this for me 90% of the time without me having to verbally prompt them (since my body language and vibe will do this for me).

2- When opening groups of guys, you can either work the guy and ignore the girl, work the guy until he's committed to not having a prob with you being there and then move to the girl (this should take only seconds to 1 minute), or blowing the guy out completely (this last one is easily done when you are 'alpha', because the girls give you so much attention so quickly, that the guys just give up and walk away with their tail between their legs). I use all three, by using common sense.

I've seen some posts lately about what is better, going to the target or engaging the whole group. The answer is to use your brain and common sense. Do what is natural and the path of least resistance in the particular situation.

The only rule of pickup is to be clearly cooler than the girl (I recall David D calling this "The Prime Directive: Never communicate lower social value"). That being the case, take the path of least social resistance, based on what you can tell will obviously work. Many of the rules of pickup as seen on ASF are generalities and ideas that are intended to make things run more smoothly, but always need to be moderated by common sense.

My personal most common approach on guy/girl mixed sets is to engage the group, but the second the guy gives tacit consent to me being there, I blow him out on the spot and engage the girl directly. This takes only seconds. Typically I prefer for him to stay there, because I can eclipse him so strongly that him sitting there watching me only increases my status. This is like striking out like a tiger or something. Like seriously, you go in and come across way cooler than the guy within seconds, and the instant that he obviously is lower than you he is tooled and you cut into the girl and go for it. Still, if I see the girl is going crazy getting all wet by me ignoring her, I'll keep it up. Some girls are just like that, and if I see it I calibrate by playing it out. Or the dude may be just a cool guy, in which case I'll hang with him and I know he'll hook me up (which has happened to me many times). Either way, when Mystery posts about engaging the group, he is not advising the kind of Social Robot behaviours that Style recently posted about. Have I mentioned common sense? : )

[Ian Smith]

3- "Cutting in". This term is something I yell at my wings when I see them f*cking up and not cutting into the girl they want. You'll hear me yell "CUT IN!"

On average, I need only engage the group between 30 seconds to 3 minutes before I have the girl I want chasing me. Mystery is the same. He's usually in the corner with his girl in about 3-5 minutes, and making out with her in about 6-15. I differ slightly in that I prefer to extract the girl from the club and make out at the next venue, which I do within about 20 minutes, although admittedly I'll do fast makeouts on workshop just to show off even though I don't always think its the best path at that time.

This is where many guys go wrong with the active disinterest. I want the girl close to me ASAP (within 6 inches of my face). The few ways I do this would include:

A-CUTTING IN: To cut in means to move closer to the girl, without being jumpy or nervous or getting too much in her face. It's like how you would walk up to and pick up a cat without making it run off. I do so by turning my face sideways and looking distracted for about half a second, and then closing in. Or turning my body language, or doing it on high points when she's giggly because she's suggestible at that point and if she's giggly she won't object to escalation because she's not thinking logically. Because I don't shoot into her face too abruptly, she doesn't get uncomfortable. This is done with body language. Very easy. Most guys make mistakes here because they infringe on personal space too quickly, the girls lock up. Also, because they don't look confident, it looks premeditated and too outcome dependent, which makes the girls feel uncomfortable like "What's he trying to pull?" instead of "This fun alpha guy does whatever the f*ck he wants and I don't question it because he's congruent."

Typically, I will have the girl engaged with my palms up and her hands on mine, so I can do IOI tests regularly to see where she's at. The second she's ready to be pulled, I examine the social situation and make it happen or bridge and then venue change, continue to solidify the bridge, or move to the next set. Oftentimes I am perched on a bar stool with my legs open and her leaning in between them. This is the IDEAL PUA position, and is very important. If you read Herbals latest LR in Field Reports, you'll see him talking about Mystery in this position, which is something I adopted from him and I've found very lethal. It's also great on so many levels, because you can also put her hands on your knees, and lean back to see if she keeps them there, etc., etc.

B-Use a routine: Another quick way is to run the trust test routine or something (like show her something on herself), to make her have to come up to you in order for you to demonstrate whatever it is you're doing. Again, quick and easy.

C-Bait: The other way is something that you don't do, but that just happens. That's that oftentimes the girl will see her friends liking you, and because of this she'll practically start molesting you. This is very common. The other night Twentysix is working a group, and the hottest girl attacks him and pulls him home and f*cks him within 45 minutes. Surprisingly not uncommon, although the latter case is an obvious case of fool's mate, even though the 2 dash 6 is still happily dating her now.

D-Split the set with my wing: Here you just have a wing come in and chat the girls but ignore your girl, and you just move your bodylanguage sideways and engage her in a conversation, so you can work easily here.

Notice here that regardless of how it goes down, I'm face to face with the girl within seconds to a few minutes (usually seconds to one minute). This is not a case where I'm forced to engage the set for long. It's simple social common sense to work social gatherings and to take the path of least resistance. You need not do so, its just often easier and more consistent if you do. Yes, girls are picked up without group theory or any knowledge of ASF, so the aforementioned remarks are obvious truisms. The point is ease and consistency.

The same goes for not facing the girls when you roll in. I've seen guys who have read old posts of mine where I've suggested to enter the set initially sideways. This is the path of least resistance, and there is definitely no harm done in doing so, but oftentimes it can help to make it open more smoothly. That said, it is important not to forget the part from that same post about "The second she earns it, turn and face her". Her giving you her attention (Style calls this the "Hook Point") will usually happen within 1-15 seconds, and at that point you should be engaging them completely, and running your game on them. If it takes longer, wait. But that's an error at that point, and you're in damage control (still, I've pulled many sets that opened awkwardly).

SUMMARY:

Get the girl engaged ASAP. Active Disinterest does not mean that you are A-Sexual. Use active disinterest and engage the group when common sense tells you that it is the path of least resistance. If her interest level is at a point where you need not do so, then don't. Mystery himself has done this as long as I've known him, and guys need not be concerned about losing sets by doing so. If you detect that the friends WILL interfere, you can also re-engage them easily if you feel that that is the best move.

Anyway, hopefully this had some useful distinctions to some of you guys. To me this seems very obvious, but after browsing some recent posts and seeing some guys in the field who had no previous real life interactions with PUAs, I felt that it was something may have been in need of clarification.

I also recommend that guys go out and experiment with both extremely direct sexual approaches, and group theory / AD approaches. This is the only way to gain calibration skills -> experimentation.

Tyler Durden

[Ian Smith]

AMOG Tactics

by Tyler Durden


100% AMOG DESTROYER

The easy way to handle any alpha is to be polite to him, but act disinterested by his rap/accomplishments using tonality/body language (without coming off as patronizing/sarcastic) while simultaneously being charming to others around you. This will drop his perceived value and cause him to qualify himself to try and raise it back up. He can't fight you or do shit like that, and he can't move to insults, because you've been polite and in doing so he would be making himself look VERY BAD. The only tactic vs this is to walk away. If you reward him just enough to encourage further qualifying but not enough to make him feel validated again he will fall into line as beta in relation to you. I blow out rich men in power outfits, top ranking professors in schools, 300lb bouncers, police officers and gangers ALL THE TIME. This shit works - if you do it right they will work VERY HARD to be your friend.


Ultra quick and effective AMOG destroyer

This is just like the JAP Busting stuff, where you say "you're cool", as a way of tricking him to qualify himself to you.

He's stuck, because if he DOES do well, he's qualified himself to you. If he doesn't, he's failed to. The only answer he would have would be to say back to you "hey now, you're cool.. I didn't mean to step on your toes man.. You're a smart guy, keep talking to her and I'll watch and learn man!"..
Of course to that, you could reply, "You just met me and you already say I'm smart and cool? hahah"


More AMOG destroyer

AMOG: How do you guys know eachother?
PUA: Her? I fucked her.
(Girl will go "aaaaaaaaah... hahahahah, I did NOT!!! But she'll hit you and be giggling and start crawling all over you...).

AMOG: Hey, this is a nice girl.
PUA: Her.. she's a slut..
(Again, girl will start going "nooooo!" while giggling her ass off and crawling on you.. this is very deflating to the guy trying to cut in)

AMOG: Hey girls whats up (or whatever)
PUA: Hey dude dude (putting hands up like you give up).. I will pay you a HUNDRED dollars right now, to take these girls away from me.
(Girls will go "no no no... we love you PUA.. noooooo" and giggle and crawl on you.. Again, immediately deflating to the guy)

AMOG: Hey girls what's up (or whatever)
PUA: Dude, OMG that shirt is AWESOME.. I had one just like it in highschool, it fucking rocks man.. Having a good time in London man.. It's awesome huh? Dude you're like the coolest guy I met all night.. (patting him on the shoulder)..

AMOG: (showing signs that he wants to fight)
PUA: hahah, dude, are you like trying to pick a fight with me? hahahha.. ok ok hold up hold up.. wait a sec, we'll do even better.. first... we'll have an arm wrestling competition.. then second.. we'll do one armed push ups.. and last..... POSE-DOWN!!

(then you start flexing and go "ladies?", and they start saying how you're so strong, and the AMOG looks like a tool.. you're tooling him, by making him seem like he's trying too hard to impress the girls by showing them superiority).

AMOG: Hey man.. keep talking.. no no, let's hear your pitch man.. pick these girls up man, you're doing awesome.
PUA: Hey, you know I've gotta try to impress you COOL (x-city, x-dressed, x-whatever quality) guys.. You guys fucking ROCK.
(cut him down on whatever limited amount of knowledge you have of him, even if its not relevant whatsoever, he'll feel uncomfortable and his body language will show it)

AMOG: (starts touching you to show dominance)
PUA: hahhaha, DUUUUDE, I'm not into guys man... dude, there's club-gay-whatever over there man.. hands off the merchandise buddy
(girls laugh at him, then he starts qualifying himself to you that he's not gay)

AMOG: (gets in your face)
PUA: (don't answer.. just SIT there quiet.. the more he says stuff to you, the more he's TRYING.. talking too long without an answer is QUALIFYING yourself.. so if he keeps trying to out-alpha you, and you don't answer, eventually he looks beta because he tried too hard to get your attention.. another trick is to make "let's get out of here" girl code with your eyes to the girls (mimic what they do to each other when you do a bad set), and they'll leave with you)

AMOG: (gets in your face)
PUA: dude, you're an alphamale..
AMOG: what's that..
PUA: you know, like the leader of the pack.. you call the shots.. you can put your hands on guys you don't know, cause you're alpha..
(fucks up his whole 'look cool' game, because you've characterized all his mannerisms, so anything he does to look alpha makes him appear to be qualifying himself too you.. if he continues, just say "see... alphamale.. whoa tiger, I can't mess")

PUA: dude, you're like Bart Simpson all grown up.. (for guys who pull the college-guy type out alpha on you)

PUA: dude, you're like the Joan Rivers of the club.. I love all the little comments and shit.. (to imply like he does nothing but sits on the sidelines making comments but doesn't take action, so use this on guys who have that characteristic in the club venue)

PUA: That was really good man, you're like a comedian.

OR, if the dude is out-alpha'ing you, keep going until he's TOO into it, and then let him do a bunch of condescending shit on you in a row. Look at the girls like you're bored or sad, and because he's talking TOO MUCH he's therefore qualifying himself to you and losing. Then say to the girls "he's playing the condescention game.. I already won so I stopped now.. who do you guys think won, me or him?" (key is that you looked SAD so the girls start going "awww, he's so sweet", so they'll say you won because they love you now)
For super aggressive AMOGs who try to pick fights

AMOG: blah blah..
PUA: Dude, are you pissed that you're rolling with all guys?

AMOG: blah blah
PUA: dude, your all guy crew is so slick man.. where are your girls dude, what happened tonight?

AMOG: let's go outside..
PUA: guy man, I'm with chicks right now.. I'M INTO CHICKS.. I can't get into this experimental kinky shit with you right now, I have my hands full.. (misinterpreting that he was trying to sleep with you, not fight you)

AMOG: blah blah..
PUA: dude, that shirt rocks.. Tommy Hilfiger.. awesome.. man, back in highschool I used to have the one with like all these cool stripes on it.. it was awesome..

AMOG: fight blah blah..
PUA: guy man, these chicks just told me that they dig you like so bad.. you don't have to fight to prove yourself to them.. they think you're an alphamale dude.. you don't need to try so HARD man.. just BE REAL..

Once you get the guy to qualify himself to you in any way (like he tries to make friends), rather than being nice, IMMEDIATELY cut him out of the circle. Just cut him out. You'll notice trying to SHUT YOUR GAME DOWN by bombarding you with logical questions. They'll start pummeling you with logical stuff, so that you have to answer him the girls fall out of state. For me I found the solution was just to say "hey man, don't get all scientific on me.. we're here to have fun.." and then immediately start gaming the girls again. btw, if I'm out with any of my GFs at a club, and another guy hits on them, I use the same tactics on AMOGS to stop them.

When you cut him out of the circle, he'll either leave (too deflated), or he'll try to grab your shoulder and say something like "don't turn your back on me". From there, the girls think he's creepy, so you say "hey guys, this dude is creepy.. are you friends with this guy?? did YOU bring this guy here?" The girls will say "no no no, we don't know him", and you say "OK, let's get out of here", and put out your arms for them to grab.

Then walk away with the girls on your arms, and if you want (I do this alot) turn around and have them both kiss you on the cheek and wave the AMOG goodbye.

Also, you can USE the AMOG's WORK for yourself. Like he lines 'em up, you knock 'em down.
This is something I do alot. I let a guy pick a girl up and increase her buying temperature, then I go in and out alpha him, say he's creepy to the girls, and then remove them from him.

The girls are already aroused, so they are still in state based on what the AMOG did. I can do this like maybe on 90% of sets I approach where a natural AMOG has gotten far with a girl. I think a dude I know "Stephane" recently posted about this on Cliff's List regarding a sarge we did.
Basically, I just make the friends of the girl who is getting gamed on by the AMOG like me. Like, they want me, but they know they're not qualified but their friend is.

Then I say "Hey I want to meet your friend so much, but that touchy grabby lean in guy is all over her.. is she just being nice, or does she really like guys who lean in and touch and do all the 'whats your name' fake un-genuine stuff?"
The UGs are invariably like "no no, we hate guys like that.. that's why we love you so much blah blah", and then you get the FRIENDS to literally REMOVE the hottie that you want from the AMOG who is conveniently heating her up for you and saving you the hassle.

Most of the time, the AMOG feels immediately beta after such a line!

Hey AMOG, what's up? Are u ill today? You look sick!

Hey AMOG, you look/talk/act strange, do you take drugs?

Hey AMOG, your clothes are really strange!

Hey AMOG, i talked to some people here...
They don't like you, because you seem strange!

Hey you seem tired!

Tyler Durden

[Nick Krygier]

wow- talk about building some sexual tension. that was a great post

[Nick Krygier]

Originally Posted by EvoJ

Yep. Pay attention boys and girls. You might hate tyler cause of the "The Game" but you gotta realize that he knows his shit.

Personally I love Tyler Durden, however, I haven't read the game, let alone any book specifically PU related. What did they say about him that would make people hate him?

[EvoJ]

Just showed him in a bit of a bad light. Not sure if everyone feels like that but it made me see him in a bad light until I read some of his work. Like he was plotting to take over everything and ruin everyone. When he was just trying to figure out how it all worked.

EvoJ

[Hector M.]

Tyler Durden SUPPOSDELY screwed Mystery over during the time of Project Hollywood, and stole the rights to Mystery Method inc. Tyler then later scrapped it to form his own company, Real Social Dynamics, which goes into deeper detail.

Personally, Tyler, to me, is an mPUA. However, I dont like his flow, as he SAYS everything that you're SUPPOSED to know, but never really teaches you, as If he just wanted to get his 2 cents in and prove he's a master.

If you can get the point behind what Tyler says, and know what to do to fix the problems he tells you to fix, then he's useful. Otherwise, he's a big talker who knows his shit.